Tap-In Question: What’s your take on what happened between the Orioles and Red Sox?

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• This weekend demonstrated again why the Red Sox, and their fan base, are the whiniest, rudest, and most arrogant in baseball. Manny may have slid hard, but clearly he was trying not to hurt Pedroia. Matt Barnes, on the other hand, clearly was trying to hurt Manny - and I'm with Zach Britton: If Pedroia can't control his teammates, the Red Sox have a serious problem. Plus, Pedroia threw Barnes under the bus - "That's him, It's not me." Way to be a stand-up teammate, fella! The fans ... good grief. After Saturday's game, Sox fans said games in April don't matter; it's all about games in September. After yesterday's game, their feeling was, "This win was huge - we are right back in it!"

  There is very little to admire or respect about the Red Sox and their supporters. This weekend provided a host of examples.

  • It's funny. Not that long ago Red Sox and Os fans were chasing the same goal. Beat the Yankees. Times have changed.

  • You are so correct with this statement, I live in Connecticut and have to listen to these whiners all the time. The Sox studio announcers Steve Lyons and Jim Rice were both encouraging the sox to hit someone. NESN kept showing the slide all weekend and crying about it. It was not a dirty slide or the league would have done something about it.

• Up until the incident Baltimore had dominated Boston this season. The slide appeared to be accidental and he would have spiked him worse had it been a little lower. Farrell needed an incident to rally around. He got it in what has always been a normal baseball play until recently. Boston throwing at Manny's knees and then head was not accidental. That aspect is a really bad look on Farrell and Boston as Manny has 2 surgically repaired knees and obviously you don't throw at a guys head. They will brawl. If I'm Buck, I play baseball unless they throw at Manny again or if they try to take him out at 3rd base. Farrell needs to be reprimanded and warned. Barnes threw a sizzler at Manny's head with his catcher set up outside. He needs to be reprimanded and/ or suspended.

  • Buck is a tweaker, but he usually stays away from the brawl aspect. We'll see.

• You've covered this whole brouhaha (it's a word!) brilliantly here Dan, so thanks for that first of all!

  Not much to say that hasn't already been said. One thing's for sure though: the Red Sox have regained their status as most hated rival in the division after the Jays had briefly usurped 'em. The sad thing is that, with all three teams in contention for this crown, it's the managers that incite and provoke ire as much as or more than the players themselves. It's bad enough playing in a division with the last two turf playing surfaces. That we have to endure the antics of Girardi, Gibbons and especially Farrell seems a bridge too far...

  The best way to handle this thing, and any future flare-ups with any team? Beat 'em between the lines. Repeatedly and with gusto. Maybe do the pie thing in their house, as they've been known to do the Gatorade shower thing in our yard. Make 'em sad and angry and out of the playoffs, not physically wounded.

  • Thanks Claude. And I think you're right on settling disputes

• Pedroia looks terrible. To Britton's point, he could have made it clear to his pitching staff that he didn't want them to seek retribution. But he didn't do that, and now he's rolled his guys under the bus with his words to Manny from the dugout, as well as his post-game comments.

  • Alternatively: Pedroia did make his case to his team and he was undermined. His in-game comments were an act of whistle blowing against Farrell/management. The captain is obviously not happy with the state of the clubhouse.

    Which is nice. One of my favorite flavors of Boston failure is internal implosion. Send over some chicken care of Bobby Andino.

  • That's some funny stuff, aa. Drink chip.

• This past weekend, I made an arse of myself with comments I made on this site regarding my misperception that Pedroia and Farrrell may have been milking the situation. Peedy obviously got hurt. I was wrong, and I apologize for those comments. Drinks for the house on me.

  That being said, this is all just baseball isn't it. Although the spikes were indeed a bit high, Manny didn't appear to intentionally be trying to hurt Peedy. "Take out" maybe ... but 'hurt' .. I don't think so. I'll chalk it up to Manny not being the best base runner in the game. But let's face it, Machado does have a history of this type of thing doesn't he? So do we really blame the Sox for wanting to exact a little pay back? I know that I don't. It's just baseball after all.

  BUT .. throwing THAT high and behind the head? That's an entirely different story altogether. So as advice to Peedy, I'd like to paraphrase a fictional Joe Jackson by saying ... "look for low and away, but watch out for in your ear"!

  After all, It's just baseball right?

  • Baseball is never just baseball for you Boog. And I like that.

  • When I saw the slide, I have to agree with Boog on the important matters: I love Manny but he isn't the best baserunner in the game and he does have the history. And most important, sorry, he didn't have to have the spikes that high when he slid into Pedroia and I mean into. I'm wondering if Buck may have had a little one on one with him about that because we thought he had matured a bit. I'm not saying anything here is intentional, except throwing at him afterward.

    Also, Manny might be frustrated about his lack of hitting. I don't know, but I'm hoping he understands he has to be more careful on the bases. Not less aggressive, but keeping the spikes down. He's on the brink of having a bad reputation on the matter and he and we don't need that.

    Also, the guy threw at him and it would have been just great if he put Manny out of the game. If the Red Sox want to go hand to hand with us, I think Chris Davis and company are more than ready.

• A Toronto fan I know asked: "Is it just me or is the common element of AL East brawls the Orioles?" and also commented "But young Manny is definitely a firecracker." I won't go over the evidence needed to refute those claims, but what it says to me is that Manny is still being found guilty in the court of public opinion based off of the Josh Donaldson bat throwing incident several years ago. Frankly, I don't care what other people think of Manny to an extent, but I will defend a baseless accusation that Manny was somehow responsible for this latest fracas. The Red Sox players over-reacted, and poorly, to a hard play in a close game. Was Manny's slide bad? It was not a particularly good slide, but it wasn't ill intended either. Clearly as soon as Manny reached 2nd, his concern was for Pedroia. For whatever reason the Sox players needed to blow it out of proportion, and targeted Manny for payback, even though both Manny and Pedroia had publicly moved on. However, the way Manny reacted to everything this weekend has shown me how much he's matured as a person, and that is what I take away from this. We may only have this season and next left to enjoy watching him daily here, so us Manny fans should not take that for granted.

  • There is def a reputation there. And those are always hard to shake. He handled himself well this weekend.

• Manny's comments about always being the villain made me sad. He certainly deserved the ire he got three seasons ago when he first overreacted to Donaldson in the field and then threw his bat. But I see fans of opposing teams citing that as proof positive of that fact that he will always be horrible no matter what else happens, as though it happened last week. I think that's a real shame as he has obviously matured since then. I know I would hate to be continually judged by some of the stupid things I did when I was 21 years old.

  • Yeah, the fact he just slowly walked down the line to first and never walked on the grass speaks volumes.

• First, it was a clean slide. Pedroia knows that and isn't casting blame because he would have done the same thing in that situation. Both guys play all-out.

  For someone to throw at Manny's head over this is foolish. I don't really have anything to say about Britton's take on it because, well, I'm not a player in that clubhouse. That culture is clearly different from what outsiders like us get to see.

  For fans, I think it just intensifies this rivalry a bit more. That makes it more fun, but I hope it doesn't lead to people becoming idiots and doing something stupid - in Baltimore or Boston.

  • 14 games remaining is a lot of games. Fuses will be short. But I'm with ya.

• I was just reading about the exact same scenario except it was the Tigers and the Athletics having the hard feelings when their superstars banged into one another; Ty Cobb and Home Run Baker. Over a century ago. These things happen. Its hardball, boys and girls, grown up baseball. I was glad to see Machado be the professional he needs to be and ditch the angry High School kid attitude. Aside from that, its on to Tampa...

  • Yes. Yes it is.

• Farrell and Barnes need to be suspended.

  • I'd expect some discipline. But I doubt it will be harsh.

    • I think MLB needs to go harsh with the discipline, just to protect their own integrity. They just put new rules in place to protect runners at second and home. These new rules also lessen the need for self-policing and 'unwritten rules'.

      Farrell basically said, screw your new rules and system. We are above it.
      He was throwing at The Man as much as he was throwing at Manny.

• Boston fan here. Here's my take:

  1. Machado's slide clearly did not carry the intent to harm. His conduct immediately after the slide made that clear as crystal. That should have been the beginning and the end of it.
  2. Plunking someone in retaliation is dumb. I get there's a "code," but the written rules should take care of situations like the slide. If Torre thinks it should be looked it, it should be looked at. Oddly enough it may seem to some, but I have a lot of respect and faith in Joe Torre (even if he has a nose picking habit).
  3. IF you're going to bean a guy, you peg him in the rear at the next at bat, not late in the game. And you never, EVER throw behind a guy's head. Barnes should be suspended at least three games for that, and Farrell should be looked at, I agree, although I don't think Farrell would have given the instruction to throw behind anyone's head.
  4. I get what Britton is saying about controlling the clubhouse, and I agree Pedroia should have made it clear to his teammates what Boston's reaction should be. What actually happened in the clubhouse, however, we may never know.

  I have always had a soft spot for the Orioles. Despite being in the division, they have always been a great club with great fans and a phenomenal stadium that I love visiting. Growing up in Rochester, I saw a lot of Orioles-to-be come through before their affiliation switched to the Twins.

  I want to see good, hard baseball, which I think is the only thing Machado is guilty of. I do not want some ongoing feud that's a distraction from the game. I feasted on that crap as a teenager with the Don Zimmer/Pedro Martinez scuffle and the Rodriguez/Varitek fight, but it's tiring and not why I watch the game. Baseball is something to be enjoyed together no matter who you root for, not as a catalyst for stupid tribal wars. And no, I'm not saying that just because my wife happens to be a Yankee fan.

  I hope this is the end of it, and everyone gets back to playing ball.

  • Well said!

  • Agreed. Excellent post. Fake drink chips to you. And don't be a stranger. Thoughtful commentary always welcomed here, no matter the affiliation.

• This was just ridiculous on Boston's part. There was nothing dirty about Manny's slide. Pedroia and Farrell seemed to realize that just fine. Rodriguez and Barnes- not so much. Unless Pedroia is just trying to save face. But- if Pedroia was being honest about not wanting the retaliation- I'd be really worried if I'm the Sox that the manager and essentially the captain were both just ignored by two underlings, and your problems are a lot bigger than just being behind the PECOTA "darling" O's yet again. Either way, if I'm the O's I don't turn this into a year long trading of high and tight fastballs- I just keep beating them and leave them home come October.

  • Yeah. I don't think Pedroia was saving face. That's not his style. He was pretty consistent with his message throughout.

• I think Manny's past is catching up with him. Between the Donaldson incident a few years ago and the Ventura brawl last year, I think he's gotten the reputation of being a hot head. I was amazed by his reaction yesterday- he reacted like a mature adult and handled it beautifully. Hopefully this is the beginning of a new Manny.

  Maybe the Red Sox's reaction to the incident was due to frustration? They know they're the better team and yet, they can't seem to pull away from the O's and are currently mired in 3rd place.

  • I don't think it's that deep. The frustration was Pedroia was hurt and someone was gonna pay.

• It still takes me a back a bit reading all the social media comments and reporting feedback. The unrelenting viciousness of the fans has just been crazy over this. Baseball is entertainment. It's supposed to provide escapism, enjoyment, hope, pride. Enjoy the win and move on.

  What's up with Gausman? What's the next adjustment he has to make?

  Can we take a moment and recognize Wellington Castillo is the leading hitter on the squad?

  Hypothetically, what's the trade value right now of Brad Brach? Conversely, what could they get for Britton if they hand things to Brach?

  Who plays SS next year? Do we move to get a SS this year with bullpen arms?

  • Manny plays short.

  • 1. I think we give Gausman over to Caleb, the ace whisperer.
    2. Moment taken. But still gonna lose AB's to Caleb if he can't get better performances from the staff.
    3. We shall only ponder that if the season is lost in August. Now I would consider trading one of the over-performing young bats for a starter.
    4. Manny at short. Schoop maybe moves to 3b depending which vacancy is easier to fill (2b or 3b). If Hardy holds together, I would bring him back for another year.

• These guys are world class, professional pitchers, but they're human. God forbid one of the Oriole hurlers misses upstairs next week.

  • Yeah. That would get ugly.

• We're giving Manny credit for his mature reaction, but we have to realize he wasn't actually hit by a pitch. How would he have reacted if one of those four attempts was successful? On the other hand, he did stay calm through all four attempts which is quite commendable.

  • He wasn't hit by Abad either and tossed the bat. So an improvement over that.

  • Based on where the pitches were heading, I suspect his reaction would be to curl up on the ground in agony. Taking one on the knee -- previously surgically repaired -- or catching a heater in the ear would put him down and possibly out of action. I think he showed a great deal of maturity considering where the pitch from Barnes went. His follow up, jerking the next pitch over Bradley's head to the wall, was exactly what he needed to do, and he did it.

• My take on the series is that the O's have managed to bring some good pitching from places I didn't expect. Held Boston to 8 runs over three games, and most of the damage came at Gausman's expense. If he gets it together (yes, and if a lot of other pitchers hold it together too) then the rotation has a lot of potential, which was not what I expected coming into this season. I fully expected good pitching most of the time from Tillman, Gausman, and Bundy, followed by wishing for 5 HR nights when Miley and Ubaldo are on the hill. Instead, Miley, Bundy, Aquino, and Archer have all looked pretty good. I did not see pitching carrying the team to this point.

  I know some of this extends beyond the Boston series, but so far the O's pitching has pretty well contained Boston's very good lineup. I don't think that's accidental. I think pitching is much better right now than I expected it to be. Hope the trend continues and that the bats heat up.