Tap-In Question: Which all-time Oriole has frustrated you the most during your fandom?

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• I nominate Cal Ripken Jr.

  OK, OK .... I take it back. Calm down .. it's a JOKE people! Sheeeesh.

  Dan, I may have gone with a few others, but you always seem to use up the good ones. So .. in refusing to repeat any of your names ... or mention Reggie since I refuse to include that louse as "an all time Oriole"....

  The name that immediately comes to my mind is Glenn's cousin, Storm Davis. Not that he didn't pitch well for us, and no fault of his own, but I'll always remember him be saddled with moniker of "Cy Future". He actually pitched pretty well for us, (we certainly would LOVE to have him on this current team), but somehow in my pea brain ... he fell short of my expectations. Simply because of that nickname.

  • That's a good one, Boog. I figured this may be a topic that brings out some individual stories and reasons. Drink chip. (Tho it's a little early to start giving YOU freebies.)

  • I second that. If you have a name like Storm Davis and you neither win the Cy Young nor secretly go out and fight crime in Gotham City you are a disappointment. If only his parents had named him Scott or Stanley none of this would apply.

• It has to be framed in the context of value. I think that is what leads to frustration. It's Jimenez and Davis, hands down, because of the lack of value. You could argue Jeffrey Hammonds or Ben McDonald (high #1 picks) but they were only frustrating from not meeting expectations.
  The mega contracts of Davis and Jimenez compound the frustration because of the opportunity cost. What could have been done with that money (international scouting, etc)?
  No megacontracts, please. It only leads to frustration.

  • Reasoned opinions. Drink chip. But I will counter with this: what about the previous years with Davis when he was outproducing his salary (in an MLB sense)? Should that be factored in?

  • Wish I had thought of McDonald. Good one.

• I'm actually going to go with Daniel Cabrerra (at least, off the top of my head). He had such an arm and yet couldn't find any consistency. The O's kept throwing him out there every 5 days hoping the light bulb would go on.

  I always figured he would end up with another team and find major success. He was Jake Arrieta before there was a Jake Arrieta (who also deserves mention here).

  • I nearly suggested him Karks. But like Boog has said, I didn't want to take all the good ones.

• Piggy-backing on my comment from last night - the triumvirate of Kevin Gregg, Jorge Julio, and Tommy Hunter as closer(s).

  • That's a good one. No Mike Gonzalez?

  • He wasn't on the mound enough for me to throw Natty Boh's at my tv...but yeah, he was pretty awful too.

• Just to throw an alternative to who a lot of people will say, I'm going to say Brian Matusz. Very high pick, expected to be a beast lefty starter, and was only for a time a competent LOOGY.

  OK, I really wanted to say Ubaldo and Crush, in that order, but it did come across as a bit cliche under the circumstances. I just think there were very high expectations for Matusz that didn't pan out. I could also lump Wieters into that category based on the hype coming up -- Mauer with power, etc. -- but I do think overall he was added value for most of his time in Baltimore. I also think Wieters was unfairly held to excessive expectations. I don't see that in Matusz. He just never materialized.

  • This is a really good one and one that gets forgotten because he was a solid reliever and contributor for a while. But his regression as a starter frustrated everyone involved and was painful to watch. He was the fourth pick overall. He was basically a lefty Gausman but could never right the ship as a starter once things went poorly. Drink chip.

  • I've read scouts that don't know how Wieters got compared to Mauer and they compared him closer to Varitek, which if you look at their numbers it was pretty dead on I say. Matusz frustrated me to no end. I thought we had a rotation for a decade in Arrieta, Britton, and Matusz.

    • Varitek was the natural comparison. Especially w Georgia Tech and Boras connections.

• The Bell brothers - Juan and Josh. Juan was the centerpiece of the Eddie Murray trade to the Dodgers; Josh was a key in the George Sherrill trade to the Dodgers. Both were supposed to be significant upgrades at shortstop and third base, respectively; both flamed out. As a result, in trading away a Hall of Famer and our one legitimate relief pitcher, we got bupkus.

  • Josh Bell was a third baseman. Dude never looked like a shortstop, I promise you that. But you're right. Both flameouts. Good call

• Daniel Cabrera. Looked like the real deal. Oh well.

  • Such a great arm. But like many just couldn't learn to locate his pitches.

• Jeffery Hammonds. Came up as a real young kid, fast, could hit, played a great outfield. He hit around .300 his first couple seasons, albeit in somewhat limited capacity and then fell off from there. Turned into a serviceable 4th outfield for several teams, but never into the superstar he looked like coming up from the minors.

  • Yeah. That was one I almost put into my list. Had a solid season when thrust into action in 1997 tho.

• Sorry see Cabrera was already mentioned. My bad. Let's try Larry Bigbie. Tall,smooth,nice swing,good OF. Just didn't pan out.

  • Another from the "great guy" variety

• I agree with many of the names mentioned here, but for me there are 2.

  1 - Brian Matusz, for reasons already mentioned.

  2 - Nolan Reimold. I've told this story elsewhere, but I was the winner of the Nolan Reimold sweepstakes, which he of course was in the minor leagues for. Admittedly, it was a bit embarrassing for the O's staff that showed me and 3 friends around Camden, but they were great. But, Reimold seemed to have such potential, but injuries took it away. I'll never forget his hot start to 2012, and what could have been had he stayed healthy. So, Reimold probably more for personal reasons than his actual potential, but still a source of frustration.

  • Another good one. What made his game work was his hustle. But that's also what killed him. Diving into the stands and injuring his neck sapped him of much of his career.

• Dennis Martinez anyone? As I recall he had so much potential but struggled with alcohol issues, and like Arrieta he didn't excel until the Orioles let him go. My memory is foggy though so it may not be reliable.

  • Nope. You picked a great one. Dempsey said Denny was the most talented pitcher he ever had. Just didn't realize that full potential until later in life. Drink chip.

• I agree with the Earl Williams assessment. He was the NL Rookie of the Year as a catcher for the Braves and the Orioles had him tagged for greatness. But when he came from Atlanta, he never approached the production he had as a Brave. Earl Weaver started using him as a DH and sometimes at first base. But he never fit in here. Of course, he kinda disappeared when he went back to Atlanta.
  I also agree with Chris Davis. But I don't think it's fair to judge him because everything is fresh on my mind. I understand why Buck won't bench him but I would bat him lower in the order. I have never seen a guy take more called strike threes than him. And I won't soon forget how he killed a rally against Houston in the ninth inning by hunting softly back to the pitcher.

  • As I remember it, the knock on Earl Williams was his subpar play behind the plate. AND consider that it was a lot easier to mash taters in Fulton County Stadium than it was old Memorial in Bal'more. Witness how Davey Johnson who averaged less than 10 per year with the Orioles made a sudden Brady Andersonesque quantum leap to 43 his 1st year in Atlanta.

    But yeah .. Williams was a good choice.

  • Apparently Earl badly wanted Williams and then couldn't stand him once he managed him

• My ultimate will always be Brian Matusz. I remember going to his debut at Camden Yards, and just being excited for the potential. From there it was all down hill.

  I'm going to take a different approach, and mention two guys that never even got a cup of coffee. First is #5 overall pick in 2009 Matt Hobgood, and 2006 #9 overall pick Billy Rowell. I know, teams miss on high draft picks all the time in baseball, and its not as much them as it is a frustration with the organizations inability to draft and develop players during that time period. For some reason those two will always stick out to me, but that's probably because that's around the time I really started getting into the team. I'll always remember the Hobgood article written in The Sun after we drafted him, and just being excited for the guy. Over a short time my excitement only diminished, and that light of hope went out kind of quickly. As a bonus, I'll throw in unsigned draft pick Wade Townsend, 9 hits with the organization Brandon Synder, Pedro Beato, Adam Loewen, Chris Smith, Beau Hale.....sigh, I could go on, but now I'm sad.

  • Bird Man, if you want to continue to stumble down that path I did a piece in June ranking the worst draft picks in Os history. I also did a best one. They are on the site. Just search most disappointing draft picks

• Albert Belle. That is all

  • Joey? True .. he had already peaked in Cleveland.

  • I was so thoroughly disillusioned with his time in Baltimore that I'd completely scrubbed it from my mind. Thanks for replanting it. :-)

  • That one goes without saying. Belle was hot garbage and pretty much made Angelos lock the safe for 6 years, finally squeezing out a few bucks for Miggy Tejada in '04.

  • I knew there'd be a mention of him here.

  • Belle actually had a REALLY good 1999 and a decent 2000. In '99, he collected 181 hits, 36 2B, 37 HR, 117 RBI, and a .297/.400/.541 slash line. Not to mention, he also had 11 outfield assists, 2nd only to Jermaine Dye for AL outfielders. In 2000, he again hit 20+ HR and 100+ RBI to go with a .281 average. How is that "hot garbage?" Yeah, his contract will go down along with Ubaldo's as worst in franchise history. But nobody foresaw his degenerative hip condition, and unlike Ubaldo, Belle actually produced very well in the time that he did play. At least we're not the LA Angels on the hook for Pujols' contract!

• You know, Boog isn't as far off with his Cal Ripken Jr. joke as it may seem. All due respect to the greatness of the Ironman, the last 5 years or so of his tenure he was a bit of a liability and his reputation vastly outstripped his production. I can recall many a 2 out rally where the Greatest Oriole of them all stepped to the dish and promptly went down swinging or popped out to shallow left. Plus, and no one ever mentions this but it's always been something I've thought about, the worst era in Orioles history (87-88) coincided with a time period when the Ripken family pretty much ran the organization. Then Frank Robinson comes in in 1989 and that great "Why Not?" season takes place, still my favorite all time Oriole team (Moose Milligan!)

  Go ahead a throw the rotten vegetables, just watch the face please.

  • You're a much more brave man than I BanMo.

    That being said, I'm going to back you up a wee bit, in that I always thought Cal was a bit overrated. Of course The Steak covered a lot of pimples, but take away those 2 MVP years and there was a lot of mediocre going on.

  • Clean up at the end of the bar. Clean up at the end of the bar.

  • =)

• Also, I'm not old enough to remember it, but I'm fairly certain anyone over 50 on this forum spits on their own floor and shouts a string of unprintable blasphemies upon hearing the name of Reginald Martinez Jackson.

  • I alluded to him in my 1st post. I believe the term was "louse".

    "Spits on your own floor" ... would that by chance be a Goodfellas reference? I like it!

  • It was only one year, but the frustration lasted a generation.

    • Way too young to understand the frustration, but I'm looking at his stats for his lone year with the organization, and he led the league in Slugging. Is the frustration because he left and signed a mega contract with the Yankees? Or was he just a complete jerk while he was here?

      • Carpetbagging in its purest form, and it cost the Orioles Don Baylor.

  • Well, Bird Man. He held out once traded. Which hurt a team that had legit playoff aspirations. And the point of the trade was to re-sign him, which they didn't. And you know the rest of the story.

• Matusz, Strop, Cabrera are a great start. First two were the only ones i yelled at at our home stadium

  • Poor Strop. Totally misunderstood. And he was on the Ubaldometer of nice guys.

• Most frustrating Oriole (s).....how about Armando Benitez and Mike Timlin.
  Benitez had good velocity for late in the game but was frustrating because the bigger the situation was he seemed to come unglued and loose composure, along with control of his pitches.
  And Mike Timlin, well I remember he couldn't CLOSE a box with with tape let alone close a baseball game with a lead.

  • It took a while to get an Armando mention. I lost that bet. Drink chip.

• Pedro Strop should get an honorable mention here, because I guarantee you when the Arrieta deal went down with Chicago, many of your readers didn't even notice Jake was leaving as they were so happy Strop was going out the door in front of him. I know I was.

  • Me too!

  • Same here. Every night I was saying just release Strop already. And now look at him.

  • Man, Pedro. Was it the hat?

• Gene Woodling. He made it known that he didn't want to be an Oriole, and it definitely showed in his performance.

  • I bow to this man. You sir, are Oriole fans royalty.

  • Woodling was an all star as a Oriole then long time first base coach

    • I'm an old fart, but I had never heard of him until today.

  • I didn't the background on that either.

• Glenn Davis and Hobgood are too easy. I'll give you Felix Pie and Kevin Gregg. Some fans actually thought the Os should go with Pie as their centerfielder rather than Adam Jones. Gregg made us actually squirm to see if he would accept our offer to "save" us. Desperate times indeed.

  • Pie was super talented. An amazing physical specimen. Just couldn't do anything consistently. Hit for a cycle, though.

    • Hard to believe that he still is only just 32. Last I remember was him having a good 2014 in Korea.

• Glen Davis !! It was a trade made at the right time that completely blew up . We traded 3 young players who had fabulous careers for a slugger who completely flamed out .

  • I have to say the lingering regret of the Davis trade makes that one king

  • I totally agree and haven't gotten over it yet. It was Houston's revenge for the Mike Cuellar trade.

  • At the time of the trade tho, Davis looked to be the missing piece.

• During our time in Outer Darkness we offered a one-dimensional outfielder named Jeromy Burnitz a two year contract before the 2006 season. He turned that down for a one year contract with the Pirates who were also in Outer Darkness. Ouch that hurt! Jeromy retired after that season.

  • Yup. I covered that walk through the Wilderness.

• So, would it be fair to mention Jose Bautista? Although he was an Oriole for such a short time, he never amounted to much in Baltimore and then went on to stardom (and douche-dom, in the interest of full disclosure) in Toronto, via TB, KC, and Pittsburgh.

  • Please, never mention Jose Bautista around here again. He is dead to us.

    • So, he disappointed you is what you're saying. I think I found one that pretty universally fits the bill. Joey Batflip.

      • Pure evil.

  • More about frustration tho

• Correct me if I'm wrong but the way I remember it was injuries with McDonald. IMO he well worth the hype. Now, Hammonds, he was a huge bust. The Orioles also had many chances to trade Hammonds for players that could actually help the Orioles. I remember the Hammonds-Shawn Green proposed trade in Winter of 97, another in 96 that would've netted the Orioles, Jeremy Burnitz.

  The two that bother me the most are Jimenez because there were warning signs about him well before the Orioles signed him and they had to give up a possible pick that could've helped the Orioles or maybe not, though the money could've been spent better elsewhere. Davis also frustrated me because there were many warning signs on him too and I also feel that the team bid against themselves. I thought it would've better to let Davis walk and signed Cespedes.

  Letting Alomar and Palmeiro walk and replacing them with Clark and DeShields really stung. Daniel Cabrera was a huge source of frustration never seeming to get his control ever settled. Also Armando Bentiez always gave me fits.

  • McDonald was all about injuries and a shoulder that had so much mileage. But he had a solid career. Just not what people expected.

    • Bens short career and injuries were a huge disappointment but he was the real deal

• Jeff Reboulet. How could someone possibly hit Randy Johnson so well, and not hit well against anyone else!

  • Hahahaha. Can't overthink that one.

• I know I'm late to the bar... maybe I can still get a drink? How about Jeremy Guthrie and to a lesser degree - Chris Tillman. The record backs me up that Guthrie never lived up to expectations. Tillman, on the other hand... perhaps my personal experience clouds my judgement, but, when I was a 13 game season ticket holder, it seemed like Chris pitched 8 or 9 of those Sundays and was a loser or no decision more often than he was a stellar winner!

  • Always serving. Beer your way. And Tillman I think has been pretty solid. But definitely some frustration this year.

  • Guthrie was got off waivers for almost nothing. I say we got a lot of out of him and were able to trade him for Jason Hammel who really made a difference in 2012.

• I've been an Orioles fan since I was a kid back in the '90s. So for me, there are a plethora of pitchers I could name.

  But for me, some of the most frustrating have been: Armando Benitez, Sidney Ponson, Daniel Cabrera, Chris Davis, and Ubaldo Jimenez.

  Benitez had the talent to be an all-world closer and perennial All-Star. This may seem like a stretch, but I believe he had the stuff to be a Lee Smith type of closer. Overpowering, intimidating, and borderline Hall of Famer. But come playoff time, he completely melted down. He seemed to always let his emotions get the best of him and was a total headcase.

  Ponson had the potential to be a solid middle of the rotation arm, but largely sucked. Cabrera and Jimenez are an awful lot alike; you never knew what you were going to get with every outing. Both showed flashes of brilliance, but could never put it together consistently. They were just as likely to throw a 1 or 2 hitter as they were getting rocked and needing to get pulled before the 5th inning.

  Chris Davis for all the reasons you listed above.

  P.S.- A sleeper candidate for me is one I can guarantee nobody will mention... Sammy Sosa in 2005. He was one of my all-time favorite players as a kid and a sure-fire Hall of Famer. When he came here, he was still a superstar and coming off 35 HR the year before. So, understandably, my excitement and expectations were through the roof. Instead, he massively disappointed and was bothered by a staff infection that seemed to never go away. And just our luck, after he took 2006 off and re-joined with the Texas Rangers, he actually had a pretty good 2007 season. Sammy had the talent (maybe? or was his entire career success due to PED's?) to be a force in the middle of our lineup. But what he's probably remembered for the most in Baltimore is thousands of fans turning his "SOSA #21" shirt into a "MARKAKIS #21" shirt the following season.

• Nice article!

• Glenn Davis is the obvious choice, but it's hard to believe that we haven't heard "Disco" Dan Ford mentioned. Horrible first year in Baltimore in 1982, and to start off 1983 makes an error on Opening Day. So much was expected of him, and he never really delivered.

• This was a fantastic tap-in question. I'm sorry I missed it while I was traveling. Some great answers in here. I'm going to throw in one I haven't seen yet... Rafael Palmeiro.

  I remember being so incredibly excited when we signed him in 94 or so. He was an absolute rock in the lineup (silver sluggers) and in the field (golden gloves). He was part of the last playoff run that we had before this recent stretch. Then he took less money to go back to Texas. It was very frustrating as a fan of the team. He came back in '04 and I remember him saying he shouldn't have left and he was older and wiser or some such. Back on the Palmeiro train! He got his 3000th hit & 500th HR. Then in the midst of the pride of accomplishments and the celebration of his career, suspension. Scandals. Steroids. Congress. Blackball.

  ...and one of the greatest players in baseball faded into obscurity.

  All-time.

  -M

  • Buck Showalter's pitching coaches - Arietta, Matusz, Gausmann, Hunter, Bundy, et.al. Notice a Pattern? Could be most of 2000s but Buck delivered some very fine years but those top line starters never developed as Orioles.

    Pardon me if I have time frame wrong on any /\