Tap-In Question: Do you care where the Orioles trade Manny Machado?

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• No doubt, it would be painful to see Machado doing his thing against us in Beantown or Pinstripes.

  On the other hand, it would be quite satisfying .... nay ... downrigth fun to stick it in his ear in Beantown or wearing Pinstripes.

  But to answer your question ... NO, I don't really care. At this point, it's impertivie to get the max return with this "lottery ticket", which in my opinion, has already been "screwed up" ... to borrow a few of your words Dan. It was screwed up 2 or 3 years ago. So if the either of the evil empires step up with the best deal ... have at 'em fellas.

  • My thoughts exactly. Imagine that. Drink chip for being on the barkeep’s page.

• I could care less where he goes. As long as we get a good return from the opposite team...which is what I don't have faith in Dan Duquette in at all. Manny MUST be traded. Same with Britton. Same with Trumbo. Same with Brach. Valencia...hell...even Jones I guess, although I would hate to see him go. Whether it be the Yankees (where he may end up next year anyway) or the Red Sox....it doesn't matter as long as we get a good return.

  • I’m with ya tho I see Trumbo as a tough part to move given next year’s commitment too. He’s useful, but wouldn’t be a rental.

• An emphatic no. The most important thing is to get the best return. He'll be able to wherever he wants in six months anyway. I thought the ERod-Miller trade was a good one, still do. The shoe is now on the other foot and if trading to the Red Sox or Yankees nets is the best return, I am a-ok with that. What I don't want is a 2000-esque fire sale that nets us no long-term sure-thing prospects. I can still hear Syd Thrift on how he insisted Luis Rivera was the key to the deal with the braves and he never spent a day in the bigs. To trade manny and get that bad of a return would be much worse than trading him to the yanks or Sox for a good return.

  • Come on Mike. You have to fact check in here. Rivera pitched 2/3 of an inning for the Os in 2000. :).

    • D'oh! I missed that. Thought he was hurt most of the time he was with us. My worse oversight was the fact that I think we got Melvin Mora in that 2000 fire sale (for Bordick, who we ended up resigning in the offseason). Mora was a very nice piece, though obviously not enough from that big 2000 fire sale to assure competitiveness a few years down the line. I think the general failure of that fire sale, coupled with some bad luck on some of our draft picks around then (Stahl, Hale), and the unfortunate use of Confederate money conspired to create a decade of darkness for the team.

• For a two month rental, I don’t care. Now, after that, I hope it’s a National League team that he signs with so I can admire his performance from afar. The only thing worse than losing Manny is having to face him 17 times of year in the god-awful unbalanced schedule (which I hate, and is another subject entirely).

  • Yup. Actually 19 times. Brutal.

• Yes, the Orioles are in the same division as the Yankees and Red Sox, but the Orioles are not their "competitor" at this point, and probably won't be for at least several years. If the Orioles are even considering passing up the best offer for Machado, it just confirms how dysfunctional the organization is.

  • I don’t think they are. Goodness, ya have to hope not.

• In 1976 the Orioles made a trade with the Yankees netting Dempsey, Tippy, and McGregor. So the best return that improves the future of the team is paramount at this point.

  • Drink chip for historical relevance.

  • Going even farther back, there was a 17 player trade with the Yankees (biggest in baseball history) that brought Willie Miranda and Gus Triandos to the Orioles back in the 50s. One way to look at it is that a swap with NY would take some of their future players away from them and Machado will go where he wants in a few months anyway.

• I care, not so much for the team names, I care that the entire dumbshow will be squandered. I get the feeling Zach and Manny will be packaged and Chris Davis won't be added in.
  Clearing mistakes should precede rebuilding.

  • There will not be a deal if Davis is added in or if by some miracle a team takes him we won't get anything back.
    As to where he goes. It would be hard to watch him take either the Yanks or Sox to a WS win.

  • I don't think the Orioles employ a hypnotist so trading Chris Davis ain't gonna happen. I mean, think of it this way...what if the Orioles traded for him? Good Lord, the howls from Maryland would be deafening, and rightfully so.

    • They actually talked about this yesterday on Sirius MLB network. The idea was would you take Davis to get Manny or Gausman or Bundy without having to give any one back. Generally they said no but one idea was that you are paying Davis's salary to NOT have to trade your top prospects. So are your top prospects worth 20M a year.

  • Davis is unmovable. If they picked up the entire contract — which they wouldn’t — a team likely wouldn’t do it. Because If the Os indicated they were willing to eat the whole deal Another team could just wait for him to clear waivers, and then sign him and then have the option of sending him to the minors (since they might be able to get him on a minors deal). Bottom line: good or bad, Davis is in Balmer.

• Though not a fan of him staying in the division or AL for that matter a deal with the Yankees would both strengthen the O's(Yanks do have excellent young talent) and weaken them(steal from that system). Chances are strong that he'd re-sign with them anyway. Did see a German,Frazier,Drury package out there.Add Britton then demand Andujar over Drury and it's done. Word has it that Peter has a limited role so we'll see.

  • You still have to get it through all layers. And at this point almost all names are speculation.

• I personally do not care where he goes as a rental.. If and when he is traded. I hope for the best possible package of prospects. I hope they take the best player available regardless of position.

  • I’m with that BUT they do need a left-side infielder desperately. And always pitching. Pitching has to be involved.

• I do not care where they trade him as long as they get young controllable talent in return. Don't bring me 4-A guys who have proven mediocre in major league time. I need an infielder and pitcher that rate high in an organization's prospect list. I get we won't get their #1 prospect most likely, but I want at least 2 top 10 players, especially if we package Britton with him.

  • I get it. But don’t get too caught up in the lists. Obviously some systems’ 12 is better than another’s 4. Plus these lists are done — usually — preseason. Consider Os OFer Ryan McKenna didn’t sniff Os Top 10 and is probably the leading candidate for their minors POY.

• I certainly used to care, then again you may have asked this when Manny had 1 year and 2 months left on his contract. It was different back then. Now I'm just ready for the O's to trade him - wherever. It doesn't matter to me. As long as we're getting back a good return (which the O's have already missed the window of opportunity to get the best prospects from teams, in my opinion) I guess I'll be satisfied. Frankly, the organization has already done so much to piss me off and let me down, botching the Manny trade would neither surprise me, nor rile me up all that much more.

  That being said, Manny being on the Red Sox or Yankees doesn't change one thing for certain: I'll never root for either team to win the World Series. Ever.

  • Yeah. It hasn’t been smooth. And I’d imagine opinions change from the beginning of the year when the Orioles had hopes for the season. And now they don’t.

• I agree with Boog's opening comment. Get a good deal from whomever because he will be a free agent at the end of the year anyway. However, I am not confident of getting a good deal. Another tap-in question: When was the last great deal this team made?

  • Hmmmm. Interesting. I guess you have to define great first. Trumbo for Clevenger was pretty darn good.

  • Bedard for Jones, without question. That haul was amazing. You got several great years out of Tillman, Jones is an Orioles HoF player at minimum, Sherrill was an all-star the one full season the O's had him (and was lights out the following year between the O's and Dodgers). Mickolio and Butler never panned out, but when you consider Bedard was essentially the Orioles best player at the time, and they got the best CF they've had in a generation, the leader of their pitching staff for years and an all-star reliever for him, that's hard to beat.

    Clevenger for Trumbo is a solid trade, especially considering Clevenger immediately torpedoed his career on social media, but Trumbo is a limited skillset player. Jones and Tillman were two of the team's best for a long time.

  • But the question was LAST great trade. I mean, Jones/Tillman was most impactful, without a doubt, but that was 08. I mean Hardy for two minor leaguers and Davis and Hunter for Koji have to be classified as great as well. And they were after Bedard.

• I couldn't agree more... We should trade him to whomever is giving us the most in return.
  I very much dislike the idea of watching Machado in pinstripes for the next decade, but I like the idea of a better Orioles squad longterm... More.

  • And you can’t do anything about the decade.

• I was quite pleased with sending Machado out when there seemed like a National League feeding frenzy, with whom I have no quarrel.

  Then along came a pinstriped spider.

  I suppose getting enough of a prospect haul from them will dull the ache BUT that would certainly increase the odds of his joining the Yankees full-time this winter. So now the O's are locked into a rebuild with the baseball equivalent of the Golden State Warriors playing in the Bronx. Additionally, you know Boston isn't sitting on their hands if NY grabs Machado. It will turn into an arms race. I cannot stomach another decade of ESPN stuffing Yankees-Red Sox down my throat and ignoring everyone else. Unless it is a full on Herschel Walker-style highway robbery (which it won't be, Cashman is just too damn good) don't send him to New York!

  • I knew there would be one voice screaming into the darkness. And it’s a funny one. As always. Drink chip.

• I care way more where he signs than where he's traded. I don't want to even see him in the American League next year if it's not with the Orioles. He needs to come to OPACY the minimum number of times possible for me to ever forget how horribly the front office screwed this situation up. Same goes for Britton when they let him walk and same goes for Schoop when they get no value for him next season.

  • Fair enough.

• I'm going to take a different tack. If the offers are close amongst all suiters for this trade, why not target an AL East opponent. We would be weakening our direct opponents in the future by pulling their strongest chips. What happens with the Orioles the rest of this season for us facing them doesn't matter at all in the standings. I wish Manny the best. MVP, whatever. But if we go fire sale, then why not target all the chips in our division that can come to fruition as a group while also weakening the opponent. We're not sacrificing any aspect of winning now because frankly, we can't win now. Execute a supply line attack for hopefully another window in a few years.

  • Excellent points. And drink chip. BUT, I guess the flip side is by trading him to a divisional behemoth you are also giving them an exclusive negotiating window after the World Series and a chance to try out New York or Boston. So you are weakening them but you also are providing a dress rehearsal. I’m just playing devil’s advocate. You know how I feel: Best deal.

  • I would say "attacking the supply lines" (love that by the way, ex-Army man) makes sense if we were talking about the Rays or Blue Jays. It doesn't apply to Boston or New York. They're simply too rich to be overly concerned with prospects. That's the worst part about no salary cap being in place. If the O's dump their top prospects for a rental, they are screwed long term. If the Yankees or Red Sox do it, they'll just go out and buy Mike Trout and Clayton Kershaw.

• It doesn't matter to me where he goes at this point. I'd really be more bummed out if he signed with another AL East team in the offseason. The most important thing is simply getting the best return for him.

  • Yup.

• I would love to see Machado win it all after we trade him, but I’ll never root for the Yankees or Red Sox. Obviously go get the best deal, but unless everyone else is lowballing and the Yankees and Red Sox are the only ones maming legit offers, tradr him outside the division.

  • Seems sensible.

• I truly don’t care where he ends up, either now or in the offseason. We need to maximize the return and move on from the Showalter/Duquette/Machado/Jones era.

  • Signing Jones has to be another topic at some point.

• I don't care where he goes, just as long as we get the best and most impactful prospect haul possible. It doesn't matter where we trade him, he gets his pick of destinations in a few months anyway. If we trade him to an AL East team, then we are technically weakening them by taking their better players. We also are weakening them in that now they get to deal with the headache of having a selfish (I tell you where I play) hotheaded (no explanation required) all star who doesn't always put forth 100% effort (failure to put max effort in running to first base).

  If we do trade him to NY, they already have all star level 2B, SS, and 3B currently playing so maybe we get one of those 3 back in a deal, which would be a positive? Boston is in the same boat. It may turn out to be a win for us in that we get a productive infielder with some major league experience in return.

  • If Andujar was a potential piece, Os would have to be intrigued. Tho he can free swing, too.

• Nope. Only care what the return is. Yankees are going to be really good for the foreseeable future & having Manny won't really change that. Plus, they have Gregorious and since Manny is pretty adamant about being a SS w/whatever team he signs with this offseason it would be a case of weakening a division rival in the future as we are (hopefully) on the upswing. No different that the trade for Miller in 2014 or the trade w/NY in 1976. Yeah, they won in 76 but would we have been in the WS in 79 or win it all in 83 w/out Dempsey, Tippy, or McGregor? I think not.

  Too many fans can only see rivalries when they should be looking for opportunities.

  • Apparently I need to take my lunch break sooner. Once again I see everyone made my points before I could log in. Infernal occupation taking away from my lounge on the internet time!

  • That’s OK. Your thoughts are always appreciated — even late.

• I trade him wherever, for the best available talent. Ditto anyone else we have, who has trade value. We're a million miles from legitimate contention again, so it cannot matter which team we strengthen. There even is an argument to preferentially trade him to a divisional opponent, for whatever prospects we get weakens that opponent in the long run. But it really cannot and should not reasonably matter.

  And on the topic raised by some others, that we got here because of front office mistakes, owner myopic frugality, etc. - i offer this. I disagree with all of that emphatically. Ownership is generous to a fault (look no further than Crush), front office officials are decisive when necessary and appropriate, and the carping is misplaced or very old news (from the pre-MacPhail era). I'd like to see reconsideration of the international market, but other than that, I have no complaints,

  That we'd get here with Manny was inevitable. For all of his talent, he is a cultural misfit for Baltimore the same way as Vladimir Guerrero in his prime. Baltimore is too small a stage for Mr. Miami.

  • Really like the perspective. Well reasoned Drink chip.

    • Yay! Gulp!

• Yes. I’d prefer not so see Manny in the AL this yr or any yr.

  • Understood.

• Yes, I care. Prefer west coast National League team so we dont have to constantly have to hear about him.

• I care: NO BOOGIE DOWN NO FENS. Even if they offer an unbeatable offer. Even Washington is more tolerable than the Boogie Down or Fens. Any other AL team is tolerable as long as a great deal is given.

  • Apologies if my all caps are interpreted as yelling. I was going for emphasis there. I still have a passionate disdain bordering on hatred for the Boogie Down and Fens squads... so if they get enriched by a trade by my team I will be likened to the Cuckoo Bird.

• Trade him to the Yankees. He’s going there anyway. I’ll never blame Manny. I’ll always blame the Angelos. They’ve scuttled a once-proud franchise in Baltimore. Duquettes legacy will be trading Manny to the Yankees because he signed a promising power hitter who now bats 40 points below the Mendoza line. Apropos for this O’s organization.

• Hi Dan. No, I don't really care to where he gets traded. Like you, I just want the best deal that the team can get. Though, being honest, I'm having serious trouble staying interested this season. You and your site definitely help.

• Personally, I think Manny has paid his dues in Baltimore, has grown into a man and has become a perineal all-star in Baltimore, and since Baltimore dropped the ball by not resigning him two years ago I wish him luck and hope he ends up on a team that competes for, and wins, a series this season. It is a shame to waste his talents in Baltimore right now. Wherever he ends up next week, and next year, I am sure I will follow his entire career. I am glad that I have been able to watch him play first-hand for several years now. We don’t often get a talent like him in Baltimore.

  The big question I have is whether there is a phenom in the high school or college level that we can go after with the first pick in the draft, since we are shoe-ins to have the worst record in baseball? From my reading, the first pick very well could be a college or high school short stop.

  • Baltimore dropped no ball. Manny never was going to re-sign here (too small a stage, cultural misfit, etc) and never was not going to test the market.

    • O’s management clearly dropped the ball. They never tendered an offer to my knowledge. They have mismanaged the organization since long before Manny arrived in Baltimore. It coincides with the arrival of Peter Angelos.

• No, because the secret plan is to have Machado re-sign with the Os once the season is over. The masterminds have had this in the works from the beginning. DD & BA have had this same plan in the works for Britton and Jones. Then MLB caves in on the MASN TV deal and the Os make a bundle of money to use for future free agents. The step has The last three Cy Young winners coming to the Os via trades for C Davis, Trumbo, and Peterson. I need to get some help.

  • Can’t afford to sign both Keyshawn AND Machado this offseason!

  • Ugh autocorrect on Kershaw

• Whoever has the best offer takes him. We're rebuilding, like it or not. But to a divisional rival, I expect to be wowed with the offer. The understanding has to be that we will be competing against these teams 19 times per year and we need something in return that closes the gap. Ultimately, whoever we make a deal with has to close the gap between us and Boston/NY over the next couple of years. Those two have fewer needs, but they see Manny as a way to get over the hump and win a WS. We have more needs and see this trade as a way to get better relative to the competition. So, I'm not against trading to the Yankees or Red Sox, but they'd better make an offer that is more enticing and not one that changes the power structure unfavorably to us.

• No. I do not care where he goes as long as we get quality in return. Why would the Yankees or Red Sox want him? Bogaerts and Gregorius are better shortstops.
  I just wish we would trade him. I am tired of the drama. The guy has never said he wants to be here.
  I think he is going to have a rude awakening when he shops himself around MLB. I don't think teams are going to line up to overpay him.
  I look forward to the day when he loafs running to first base or when he runs a team out of an inning.

• I don't care where they trade him as long as they trade him(and soon before he gets hurt)! I have mentioned before, he does not deserve to be the "face" of the O's or mentioned in the same breath as Brooks or any of the other greats. He's just a punk. Great baseball player but still a punk. We need leaders and real "ball players" who play the right way, who play for the team and not for themselves. In case you didn't notice, I have no respect for him. Anyway.....

  • If I had a beer chip it would be yours.

• In order to make the best deal..a number of young excellent players...we should
  Analyze the minors of the teams who have the best minor league aaa and aa
  Teams. If we can trust our scouts then we should have a list of the team that would
  Provide the most strength for our weakness...pitching and defense.
  In addition, we should be considering to release and or trade others to field a young
  Full team with excellence in pitching and defense