Diner Question: If money didn’t matter, would you want Machado on 2019 Orioles?

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• With the supporting cast he’d be working with I don’t think he’d even consider it. The O’s have put themselves into a box. Yes, money talks but almost all free agent players ( and their “mouths” {agents}) have such big egos that to join a team like the O’s would be beneath them. That’s why a lot of them list teams they wouldn’t accept a trade to. Back to Machado... just what would he bring to the team? He, at his best, wouldn’t be enough to make the team even moderately competitive. He’s gone so just forget him.

  • Ekim, thanks for playing along.

• I would only want him with a very strong manager to hold him accountable.

  • Deqalt, who would that be?

• Nope. Manny cares about Manny. Always has; always will. I’d much rather see Schoop brought back. I still have no issue with AJ coming back on a one year deal either. But as for Manny, he can take the side show elsewhere. He’ll fit in perfectly with all of the other a$$hats in New York.

  • Dad, I think it's unlikely that any of them will be coming back.

  • Yeah I don’t think any of them will either, as it doesn’t make sense with a rebuild. I’d take a 54 year old Rafael Palmeiro back at this point before I’d welcome back Manny.

• Yes, but only as 3rd baseman. It's not like he is blocking anyone.

  • Phil, I agree with you.

• Yeah, Rich, I'd absolutely love to see Manuel Machado rejoin the Orioles. And I'd hope he'd rekindle his entertaining feuds with the Red Sox and Athletics, as well as jog to first base from time to time. Call Manny the Salvador Dali of baseball -- along with his sublime talent you have to put up with eccentric behavior. Entertaining! Plus Manny is young enough to remain a fixture after the Orioles become competitive in 2020 and beyond. It's fun to dream!

  • Hey, don't forget he's a great role model for young fans!

  • Salvador Dali is an apposite comparison. During his lifetime the artist was known by the anagram Avida Dollars.

    • Will, was Salvador's walk-up song, "Hello Dali?"

  • bmore, you have a way about you.

• Yes. Honestly even with his attitude, which I think he'll likely grow out of at some point, he's a hall of fame caliber player. I'd rather him play on the O's for the rest of his career and at least that'd be one position the O's don't have to think about filling.

  In reality, he's likely to never wear an Orioles uniform ever again, and I'm ok with that too.

  • Creatively, I know it's time to move along, but it's fun to fantasize.

• Yes definitely I would bring him back. Before the trade he was having one of the best seasons in O's history. I don't think he would ever come back. He wants to win and be popular, two reasons he would never get in bmore

  • Devo, I enjoyed watching him play, but you're right, that ship has sailed.

• This is an interesting question. Manny is a generational talent, and he's probably not peaked yet. Thing is, he carries a lot of habits that make him a potential locker room cancer at some point. Not saying he's going to become one, or that he's there already. But there may come a time where his "I'm a shortstop" mentality harms the team, and if he persists in doing things like throwing bats and kicking players on other teams, he'll instigate brawls and his teammates could get tired of having his back. Of course, players do back each other when things get heated. Well, except maybe Dustin Pedroia, who disowned any responsibility for the headhunting directed at Manny in 2017. But I just have to wonder, especially with a young team on its way up, what influence Manny would have on the team.

  Let's be honest. If it was based solely on his baseball talent, I'd take him any day and twice on Sunday. I do think Manny is more about Manny than he is the team he's on, and I watched his actions when he told us he bled orange and black (somehow, I'd bet his blood is a shade that resembles Dodger blue now.) He would not negotiate an extension despite his words that he loves the O's. It's not that I blame a guy for wanting to capitalize on the money he'll be offered. But I definitely see him as about the team with the most zeros on the checks they write. I'm not sure that I want a player that is so centered on himself.

  On a side note, I'll be curious to see what happens in the off-season. Will there be fallout from his antics in the NLCS? What about his comments that he's just not wired to hustle (paraphrasing) as well? Does that cost him anything in a new contract? Who knows? But I'll be curious to see.

  • Bigdaddy, I don't think what's happened in the NLCS will hurt him monetarily one iota. He's never had any trouble off the field, and he wants to play every day. He'll break the bank.

• No. I appreciate his contributions to an exciting time for Oriole fans but he shows troubling signs of "entitlement." If I had money to burn I would buy up pitching and defense. BTW, Harper doesn't provide that either.

  • Gary, I'd take Machado over Harper any time.

  • I'm right there with you on that Rich.

• No. A team that needs to commit to a full rebuild, can't be looking to add studs on a long term deal. It doesn't help in the short term, as we want high draft picks for the next year or two. It doesn't necessarily help long term either as evident by the 14-year losing streak the O's had trying to build up through free agency. The free agents we need right now are just short-term strong defensive infielders to assist in pitchers not being afraid to pitch to contact.

  • Chewy, I'm eager to see who the infielders are next season. They won't be as good as Machado and Schoop.

• No. Not on a rebuilding team. Manny is a complimentary piece. He's no leader, and certainly not someone you build a team around. No leadership, consistent distractions, clowning around as the ship burns around him, he's not a guy I'd want anywhere near a group of young prospects, prospects who will no doubt idolize and emulate him. I'm sure people are saying he'll "mature" someday; he's 26 years old and has been a big league player for 7 seasons. What's the hold up? As for everyone saying he needs to be around strong management and team leaders, we just spent the last 9 years constantly hearing that Buck Showalter and Adam Jones were the baseball equivalent of George S. Patton and Martin Luther King. Where were they on this one?

  • Bancells, did you major in history, philosophy or political science?

• Manny Machado has tremendous talent but he has not improved very much in his career. Back in 2013, I thought he would be the best player on baseball by now. But has he gotten better? He went from one of the best third basemen in the game to an average shortstop. He is still a hothead and he is still a terrible baserunner. I think he is going to be disappointed about the number of offers he gets. In LA, he has been a good player, not great.

  • Danno, I think he'll get one of the richest contracts in history.

• No. Not for any amount of money on a rebuilding club. I believe Manny has been and will continue to be a negative influence on other, impressionable young players. His tremendous talent can go not fully utilized, elsewhere. I don't want to root for him. Right now it feels much more natural to hate him.

  • Mark, I think there are other fans who agree with you.

• If money was not an issue every team in baseball would be interested.

  • Bats, please don't bring reality to a fake diner.

• As someone pointed out, Manny was having one of his best years for the first half of the season. Over that period the O's were the worst team in baseball, even worse than in the second half, perhaps the worst team anywhere anytime. As for the money, I don't care how much he would pay us, I wouldn't want him back.

• Unfortunately, no. I love Manny’s talent but with the O’s in full rebuild mode, they need to be cognizant of the veterans that join the 2019 roster Those veterans need to be willing to teach, mentor, and set an example for the young players. They will need patience to endure the frustrations and losing. They need to be leaders on and off the field. As great a talent as Manny is I don’t see those talents on his resume.

  • Cedar, I think Manny does best on a team that has other stars like the Dodgers or Orioles from 2012-16.

• Those who say no are only being bitter/scorned(sorry if I offended). He can even play SS(everybody says he's SOOO much better there now---sarcasm). He's a super talent who I really don't think cares whether he's with a pennant contender or not. He had his best statistical 1/2 year while playing for baseball's worst team so winning isn't what drives him. So sure in a fantasy world--why not?

  • A note from the bitter, scorned, offended. Yes, Manny is a very talented player. He is not far and away the best player in the game. In fact, he's not even in the discussion for the best player in the game. It was debatable whether he was the best third baseman in the AL East, much less in the League; that's why he wanted to move to short. I'll bet most teams have a player or even several players they would not trade even-up for Manny. For the money he wants, there will be equal or better talent available in the next couple years. I'm not saying that he doesn't have great tools or that he isn't a very good player. I am saying that he's not incomparable or irreplaceable and that his time in the Charm City is past. And about that, I'm sure he does not feel bitter, scorned, or offended.

  • Orial, you can certainly tell what's real and what isn't. What do you want for dinner?

• Is this a trick question? Dope or not, talent is talent.

  • You know I would never trick you, BRR.

• It's not my money. Heck Yeah!

  I'd also bring back Schoop and Gausman. Those guys were building blocks and the O's had control.

  • WAM, we're dealing in semi-reality here. Machado is the only one of three who we know is going to free agency. Schoop could be non-tendered, but Gausman is in Atlanta for at least two more years.

• I say no and good riddance. I think history is going to prove what an amazing job Buck did in managing and protecting Machado from his baser tendencies that are no longer the problem of the Baltimore Orioles. I've always felt that Duquette's insistence on pacifying Machado by playing him at short this past year was an acknowledgement that they were trying to drive up his value after waiting too long to trade a player who didn't want to be here. A lot of things went into lighting the dumpster, failing to resign Markakis, the Davis contract, the failing health of Peter Angelos that created a power vacuum in the warehouse that practically castrated Buck, and the rise of trader Duquette in the midst of the vacuum, but placating Machado while he had one foot out the door and destablizing the entire left side of the infield destroyed this iteration of the Orioles and led to the fire sales we fans are left with. Manny was always going to leave, so why would we want to over pay to bring him back?

  • Os, they're not going to bring him back. It's interesting how divided the sentiments are.

• Nope. Talent alone is sometimes not good enough. He needs to care more about the game. Hustle more and leave all the drama he generates at home

  • Hallbe, Machado is certainly a polarizing player.

• A major appeal of pro sports for me is watching athletes with extraordinary ability making improbable plays -- sometimes to the point of making me say, "Wow!" Manny Machado is one of those rare athletes. There were a number of "wow" plays at third, so many that he was compared to Brooks. He is starting to do the same at shortstop, where his arm strength if even more effective. And, he can hit, and hit for power, and hit in the clutch. He and Jonathan Schoop provided what little joy 2018 had to offer. He is guilty of decisions that make you cringe -- an area I hope he develops -- but he's a player I wish I could still watch every day because he's an exceptional talent.

  • Jack, I never got tired of watching him on the field. His replacements, not so much.

• Not at all. The Orioles are at a rebuild now and we need hungry young players with spunk. Manny is an excellent player but not a example for young players.

  • Brett, I think there are many who agree with you.

• This club needs a lot more than Manny. Once he sees what fun it is to play on a winner there will be no turning back! I never expected ownership would let the name Davis bring the Orioles to their knees twice. Where were their brains?

  • retiree, I think he goes to a contender. Winning is fun, as he found out a few times.

• If money were no object, then heck yes, bring him back/sign him! He was a joy to watch hit and the plays he pulled off at third were at times ridiculous. I was born one year before Brooks Robinson retired, so I never saw him play. Watching Machado at third from 2012-2017 gave me an idea of what it must have been like to see Brooksie play in his prime. Also, how often have the O's had a hall of fame player in their prime on their roster since Cal retired? The answer is outside of Manny, zero. So, to be able to watch a hall of fame player plying his trade for the hometown team night after night is a rare sight in these parts. Is Manny a prima donna? Yes, but watching him do his thing for the O's kind of brushes the antics aside for me. I felt the same way about Ray Lewis- if he had played for any other team, I would've disliked him and his showboating personality. But, the fact that he was a lifelong Raven who put his heart and soul into playing and propped the team up on his back and helped bring 2 Super Bowl victories to B'more makes me look beyond the showboating personality and the awful wardrobe he'd display post game.

  • Bv, I think many fans share that opinion.

• If we could sign him and he would come back sure. He has tremendous talent despite his sporadic childish behavior and hustle lapses. The Orioles are rebuilding and won't offer a contract. However, they do need to draft well and develop players fans can get excited about. It's will probably be along time before they can contend again.

  • Grand Strand, how long?

    • I would offer him 28 million a year for 7 years with an opt out after 4 years. I know he will likely request an opt out no matter where he signs. Most likely he will want to play for a WS contender so leaves the Orioles out. If we did try to resign to him, he would only use our offer to up a competitors bid.

• The O's are rebuilding...Manny with all his faults would be a great addition as a 3rd baseman...however, we should do not spend the $$$'s to get him. If we are to get some
  Proven talent for a rebuilding team it should be pitching. Spend $$'s , if necessary, on
  Pitching...however, if we have talent in the minor league teams...spend $'s on those two
  Can develop them. Get rid of Davis by cutting him and offer him a sum to get out.
  Less then what the contract says..just get rid of him. Build our new team on pitching and defense...spend $$'s on those coaches, analysis others who can identify potential
  Talent and debpvelop it.

  • Jacobs, if the Orioles cut Davis, they
    owe him the full $110 million.

• I agree with a few other commenters who argued that he would be good if he was brought back with conditions. At 3rd Manny is an outstanding fielder, however his work at short is much to be desired. Also, we would need a strong coach and a few veterans to set the tone in the locker room. It irritates the living heck out of me when I see a young and healthy ball player lollygag on the base paths. The hot headed stuff (see Donaldson Saga) is frustrating, though its not as bad as the lack of effort in Manny's baserunning. That was a fun exercise, though we should be realistic and play guess the AAAA bum that will play 3rd next year. Meanwhile, the rest of the league will have to gauge whether signing Manny will be worth putting up with Manny being Manny (never thought I'd use the Manny Ramirez saying again).

  • BirdsCaps, we’ll have many months to speculate on who will play third next year. I agree, this was more fun.

• If you only focus on who's available this offseason, then yes, I'd like to have Manny back to play 3rd base. But if you focus on potential players available in the next few years, then no, I wouldn't chase Manny this offseason. I'd hold on for a year and I'd go all in on Nolan Arenado after the 2019 season. They had very similar production, and Arenado seems like he would come with less drama.

  • Justin, I think in reality it will be several years before they pursue a top-shelf free agent again.

• If I'm not mistaken, the question here was supposed to be "If money wasn’t an issue, would you want Manny Machado to return to the Orioles in 2019?" Hypothetical question and it has nothing to do with whether or not Machado would even entertain returning to the O's. We all know that we'll never have Machado back, and we all also know that money will always be an issue.

  If my understanding of he question is accurate, then I believe the answer is "Yes", not just for the O's but for most teams. There probably aren't too many teams in MLB which wouldn't want to build a team around a player like Machado. He's still young. If our goal is to be competing in a few years, Machado might still be at the prime of his career, being able to provide his greatness both in offense and defense.

  I'm pretty sure Boston would want to to build a team around Mookie and LAA still wants to continue trying to build their team around Trout. But the O's, which currently do not have anyone around whom the team want to build a team, would do almost anything to attempt to build a team around Machado if it were at all possible.

  I see quite a number of negative comments regarding Machado's defense at SS, but I wonder if part of that is due to the fact that many of us are spoiled, having to witness some of the finest plays at SS by Hardy, Bordick, Cal Jr, Belanger, and Aparicio. Take a look at defensive bWAR, which tells us that Machado has been quite a fantastic defensive SS since he moved to LAD. Even though his dWar doesn't look too good, bWAR tells us that he has been doing very well since he was traced to LAD. Or, just listen to comments made about his defense by broadcasters covering NLDS or NLCS this year. He may never be better than LAA's Simmons at SS and he also may never beat OAK's Chapman at 3B, but Machado does provide and has incredible defense at both positions. Or, simply, just look at how he has been playing his position in 2018 NLDS and NLCS.

  Manny will never, ever come back to playing for the O's in the foreseeable future, but I don't believe there are too many MLB organizations out there which wouldn't want to try to build a team around someone like Manny.

  • Excellent points, mitz

• No! His surly attitude has shown his real self during the playoffs. He doesn't care about hustling, saying, "that's not me." We saw that when he was here. It was just tolerated by Buck, and the coaches, in general. That's why they won't be back. His contact antics with Jonathan Schoop gave the impression that they were more important than the game. Look what has happened, since he was traded to The Brewers. He is an also-ran bench warmer. Hasn't played at all in the be playoffs. As much as we, myself included, revered them as teammates, and Orioles, we will be better off without both of them.

  • Charger, I think it will be a long time until we see a talent like Machado
    again.

• Yes best talent they have had since 70s.

• I realize it will be a long time before the O's award another large contract but I would vote no! Yes he is a very good ball player- exceptional third baseman. But Manny is selfish and would be a bad influence on younger players and upset the fans. His "I am no Johnny hustle"comment about sums it up. A guy gets $12M and cannot consistently run 60 feet. How pathetic. He seems to pick and choose when he hustles. He is in a contract year and makes that comment. Do you think his attitude improves with a $180M contract? (Yes- I am going low.) I say good riddance to bad rubbish.

• Seems like the perfect person to build a team around. Get Schoop back while you’re at at!