Rich Dubroff

Ellis, Hunter Harvey departures surprising Orioles news

When I contemplated possible removals from the Orioles’ 40-man roster, some were easy to forecast. Two that weren’t were pitchers Hunter Harvey and Chris Ellis.

Oriole fans were frustrated with Harvey. The team spent so much time on the team’s top draft choice in 2013 and got so little out of it.

Harvey is an exceedingly nice and polite man, and he was easy to root for. Only at the end of the 2019 season in a brief audition did he show any real promise. There were so many injuries, and clearly the team became as frustrated with him as the fans did.

I had been asked about Harvey often, and I thought the Orioles would give him one final year. He wasn’t eligible for arbitration. They didn’t have another reliever poised to take his place, and whatever they got from him would be unexpected. And, if they traded him, they wouldn’t get much in return.

In fact, they get only the waiver fee, because the San Francisco Giants claimed the 26-year-old right-hander. Since Harvey was offered to American League teams first, and then to National League teams with the worst records first, 28 teams passed on him until the Giants, who won 107 games, decided to take a chance.

It baffles me to see Harvey go, but the Orioles must have thought that his medical issues would prevent him from being a dominant, or even a serviceable pitcher.

It wasn’t until 2019 that Harvey became a reliever to save wear on his body, but two more years of injuries convinced the Orioles it was time to move on, and executive vice president/general manager Mike Elias acted decisively.

Ellis’ departure is another mystery. Although he had a 2.49 ERA in six starts, he walked 13 batters and struck out 16 in 25 1/3 innings.

The Orioles have a number of internal candidates to start next season. Besides John Means, there are inexperienced pitchers who were inconsistent last season — Keegan Akin, Mike Baumann, Dean Kremer, Zac Lowther, Alexander Wells and Bruce Zimmermann. But there was room for another candidate who could also pitch in middle relief, another area where there are plenty of openings.

Again, the Orioles saw something they didn’t like with Ellis. He threw lots of pitches, 92 to get through five scoreless, one-hit innings against the New York Yankees on September 4th, and six days later threw 91 in five innings against Toronto. That time, he allowed a run on five hits with four walks.

Ellis’ minor league numbers weren’t great. This year, at Triple-A Durham, he had a 6.32 ERA in 15 games.

Some of the other moves weren’t a surprise. Even though they assigned Nick Ciuffo to Triple-A Norfolk, they figured he’d get through outright waivers. While they don’t have a catcher on the 40-man roster, they’ll probably sign two catchers and top prospect Adley Rutschman doesn’t have to be added until he’s part of the 26-man major league roster.

For the moment, the 40-man roster has 27 players. Four — Akin, infielder Jorge Mateo, outfielder DJ Stewart and right-hander Jorge López — must be moved off the 60-day injured list and on to the 40-man roster by Sunday.

Also gone since the season ended are pitchers Fernando Abad, Zack Burdi, Marcos Diplán, Thomas Eshelman, Conner Greene, Travis Lakins, Eric Hanhold, Matt Harvey, Spenser Watkins, Konner Wade, catchers Pedro Severino and Austin Wynns, and infielder Pat Valaika.

There’s room for the minor league players they want to add to the 40-man roster, and some possible waiver claims and free-agent signings.

Interestingly, the team for now has opted to retain two right-handed pitchers claimed on waivers in the final weeks of the season, Joey Krehbiel and Brooks Kriske, who saw little action.

Call for questions: I’ll be answering Oriole questions next week. Please leave them in the comments below or email them to: Rich@BaltimoreBaseball.com.

Rich Dubroff

Rich Dubroff grew up in Brooklyn as a fan of New York teams, but after he moved to Baltimore, quickly adopted the Orioles and Colts. After nearly two decades as a freelancer assisting on Orioles coverage for several outlets, principally The Capital in Annapolis and The Carroll County Times, Dubroff began covering the team fulltime in 2011. He spent five years at Comcast SportsNet’s website and for the last two seasons, wrote for PressBoxonline.com, Dubroff lives in Baltimore with his wife of more than 30 years, Susan.

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  • I was surprised to hear the news about Harvey as well… what exactly would it have required on the O’s part to keep him?

    • Nothing. He was already on the roster. They tried to sneak him through waivers to clear a roster spot. For whom is the mystery

      • Take your pick: D.L. Hall, Adam Hall, Kyle Bradish, Robert Neustrom, Kevin Smith, Terrin Vavra, Blaine Knight, and Lamar Sparks. All are eligible to be taken in the Rule 5 draft this year. The O's have to protect some of them by adding to them to the 40-man roster. Oh, yeah, forgot Cody Sedlock, although he wasn't protected last year.

  • Harvey was questionable as he falls into that "watch him succeed elsewhere" category but Ellis!? With a Tampa pedigree, a 2.49 ERA,an awful collection of arms
    ,and a desire to stay Ellis was a no-brainer for a shot at the O's 2022 rotation. Well I guess not. "Trust the Process" is becoming a phrase that's wearing out its welcome. A side note:Spencer Watkins yeah THAT Spencer Watkins is now back in Norfolk ready to compete for Ellis' now vacated spot. Geesh.

    • Watkins can be a free agent. The Orioles outrighted him , but he can reject it. The Orioles can re sign him, but they can also sign Ellis. Nobody claimed Ellis so other teams didn’t want to put him on their 40 man roster. Wouldn’t be shocked to see Ellis in Sarasota

    • John, Watkins had never been outrighted before, so he could not decline the assignment. If a player has been outrighted previously or has three or more years of service time, they can then become free agents.

    • Doesn’t Watkins qualify as a 6 year minor league free agent? He was drafted in 2014. Unless they don’t count 2020 when there wasn’t a minor league season.

    • Watkins was released by Detroit on July 3, 2020, and didn’t sign with anyone else until this February, so I think that last year doesn’t count towards minor league free agency.

  • I've done some research on Ellis on Baseball Savant so you won't have to!
    Ellis unfortunately fell into the very nice ERA is not supported by other stats like quite a few other O's pitchers...all stats provided below are for the 2021 season with both the O's and Rays
    ERA 2.15, xERA (expected ERA) 5.41
    % Batted Balls hit on Barrel 12.2% (MLB average 6.6%)
    % Batted Balls Hard Hit (Exit Velocity >= 95 MPH) 52.4% (MLB avg 35.6%)

  • Apparently we are sitting on a gold mine of SP talent if we can let go a guy who can actually make it through 4-5 innings.

    On a club that gives roster spots to 35 year olds who’ve never pitched in the big leagues, hopeless old knuckleballers and pretty much anybody who ever goes on waivers, this is a real shocker.

    It’s almost as if Elias is scared to roster anyone who displays any competence or upside. I guess we’d hate to accidentally win an extra game or two. Might blow the rebuild which - as all the super intelligent, hyper knowledgeable genius fans will tell you - is going brilliantly. Like 4D chess in a game of checkers, the True Baseball Geniuses- and only them - see what’s Really Going On: success upon success and greatness around every corner, just you wait n see…………

    • Should be pointed out, Ellis wasn’t claimed. By any other team. 29 other teams passed on him. He’s 28 years old and been in 7 different organizations. Even guys like Shaun Anderson ( who was terrible) and Evan Phillips got claimed. So Ellis can always come back to the Orioles on a minor league deal

  • AFL update, three O's played yesterday for the Solar Sox
    Cullen drew 2 BB in 3 PAs raising his OPS to 0.977
    Gillaspie and Loeprich each went 4 IP allowing 1 ER each. Good to see each get a decent outing in as they had been struggling a bit. Two weeks left in the AFL season.

  • If you think about it the orioles aren’t the only team not confident in Harvey. He got to the giants on the waiver wire. The giants had the best record so there the last team to get priority. That’s telling if you ask me. The best ability is availability and Harvey is never available. Ellis I think is a guy you can bring back on a minor league deal with an invite to spring training.

  • I’ll take the loss of Harvey and Ellis as Elias wants to be able to protect more minor leaguers from the Rule 5 draft or he wants the flexibility to be more active in the free agent market.

    • The positive spin we all needed to read today. Here's hoping Elias and Sig will make some tremendous offseason moves! I'd upvote your comment if I could!

  • So I guess it’s safe to say the Orioles will do nothing in free agency throw a bunch of guys out there next season and we will lose another 100+ games G can’t wait for the upcoming season

  • Im not a baseball gm now, and have never been. I did not even stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, so I will reserve the right to hold opinions on moves made during this time. Just my humble opinion, that it seems prudent to let the actual gm make the roster moves, and then like or not like the team that hits the field next spring. So much to be done, so many moves still to be made. I like feeling good about what is going on even if it has resulted in entirely too many losses to date. I am one of the few( it seems ) that was ready and willing to see this franchise blown up, and completely rebuilt. Im not sure anyone expected a play-off run by this time. Good looking young prospects, and the dive into the international market seems like the right direction. Does anyone out there really believe that a 70 win team is better to watch??? I don’t want lightning in a bottle, I prefer a long term competitive team, with a packed Camden Yards

    • I’m still thinking like you. For a little longer anyway. Looking forward to this off-season more than any of the last few dating back to 2014.

      Go O’s!!

    • Awesomely stated WVOsfan!!! If you or I or any others on this site went to work like Hunter Harvey showed up for work, we would all be unemployed 6 years ago!!! Enough is enough all ready. He actually almost went through waivers, being passed by all teams but the last two remaining!!! That tells a lot also!!! If he would have cleared the last two teams without a claim, and passed waivers, the Orioles would have assigned him to Norfolk and since this would have been the first time for him, Harvey would have to accept it.
      And this proves my point, that all guys coming off the 60 day do not go automatically go back on the 40 if they are cut 1st. And with regards to the statement that "With a Tampa pedigree, a 2.49 ERA,an awful collection of arms ,and a desire to stay Ellis was a no-brainer for a shot at the O’s 2022 rotation." If Chris Ellis had the desire to stay, he could have, it was HIS option to stay or go. Since he was assigned to Triple-A Norfolk by the Orioles, he could have accepted this assignment, or, since he was cut before by another franchise, he could become a free agent, and HE chose free agency.
      I kind of thought that 26, 27 or maybe 28 players would have to be left on the 40 man, before the 60 day expires November 7th and Rule 5 draft deadline November 19 for the Orioles to have all the players coming up and having a shot to be protected or be lost. Some other teams have this same issue with their rosters as well. They need to choose between which minor league players to protect and which players from the 60 Day expiration date to keep before the Nov 19th Rule 5 deadline as well, so it will be interesting to see which players other teams cut loose before the Draft. The Orioles have the number 1 spot for the American League waiver claim process too before the Draft so they could claim someone here as well.

  • Can we please waive DJ Stewart, unless of course he wears a helmet and neck brace in the field, then we should keep him....cause that would be funny to watch!!

    • Who in the organization do you think would be better right now?

      I have a feeling he's going to figure it out this year. He's shown substantial signs that he can really be a productive player at this level. Not sure if it's fair to judge the guy this harshly considering the dysfuntionaly environment he's been in his entire time. He's playing in a circus of an organization.

      • The only substantial I can remember is his one good week in August of ‘20 when he hit those 6 homers. He’s got good plate discipline however it has not helped him put bat to ball. His defense is awful and that will not improve moving forward

  • Has a team ever protected more (or as many) minor leaguers than major leaguers? We seem to be heading there, and that’s all you need to know to project whether we’ll finish in the basement again next year and perhaps beyond that.

    • Is it all you need to know? Because free agency is still a month away (assuming there’s no lockout) and they are obviously going to buy some players to fill out the major league roster for next season. Why not protect your young talent if you believe in it?

  • Reading all of the above, I come away convinced of five things. One, our pitching staff next year will set a record for futility in several statistical categories. Two, any sought-after free agent would have no desire to sign with Baltimore, and management/ownership will not be willing to pay the above-market differential to entice above-average FA's to join a team with such bleak prospects. Three, short of some minor miracles, the O's will lose more games in 2022 than this year. I am also convinced that it would not be a good idea to bet your house that Elias and company will sign an array of under-the-radar talent that will suddenly blossom into first rate MLB pitchers and hitters. Finally, I think even if we lose 120-plus games, the hard-core optimists will gleefully predict a turnaround, break-through 2023 season.

  • Before criticizing management for their 2022 roster, I think I will wait until I see the roster mid February or whenever the CBA is in place.

  • I don't know if it's willful ignorance, or just people looking for an excuse to complain about Elias some more, but you all seriously need to calm down and look at the facts.

    1. Chris Ellis cleared waivers. The waiver process allows teams in reverse order of records to "claim" a player, which means they essentially get that player on their team for free (I think there's a small fee associated, but it's like 50k or something). Because Ellis cleared waivers, that means that not one of the 29 other franchises thought he was talented enough for a spot on their roster. This includes good teams and bad teams, data driven teams and old school teams, small market and large. NOBODY WANTED CHRIS ELLIS. You all are up in arms about us not using a 40-man spot on a guy that not one other franchise wanted to use a spot for, even teams with horrifying pitching like Pittsburgh (who claimed Hanhold from us). That's a losing mentality to cling to a guy like that.

    2. Harvey fell to the Giants, which means most every team in the league passed on him on waivers. I think this says less more about his talent and more just about health concerns. He's just not going to stay healthy, and it sucks. I'd rather use his spot on a Rule V pick that could become another Santander or Wells.

    3. The reason it feels like we are clearing dozens of spots is because we had several players on the 60-day injured list. When a player gets placed on the 60-day, they are removed from the 40-man roster. However, at the beginning of the offseason those players must be added back to the 40-man or designated for assignment. So our 40-man roster was more like a 47-man with all the injuries. When all of the injured players are added back onto the roster, it will be at 31. That leaves us nine spots to work with, so we will probably protect 5 or 6 players, make 1 or 2 rule V picks, and sign a few free agents. That's a pretty normal offseason.

    I've never understood why the Orioles fanbase gets up in arms over every little fringe transaction. It seems to be relatively unique to this team's fanbase.

    The future's looking bright, I can't wait to see some more growth next year. Just have to keep identifying those guys like Mullins and Wells. The turnaround can happen quick, look at the White Sox, who lost 100 games only three years ago, but leveraged having the #2 farm system to become a contender this year and last. Every single superstar in the game other than Ohtani was a minor leaguer at one point.

  • There are quite a few very well-informed commentators on this Site who clearly speak to the challenges that this cellar dwelling team has occupied for too long. What I don't understand is how many attack the young GM and his approach to rebuilding this team. There is no pretty way to turn around a team as bad as the Orioles are quickly and easily.

    I look at three things as indicators to see if they are moving in the right direction;

    - the players drafted by Elias in his three drafts are exceptionally talented and have very high ceilings, unlike the previous 3+ GMs--which goes back a very long time...
    - they now have a stronger presence in the International Markets which will pay off at some point down the line
    - they have a System-wide Player Development approach for training players in the best methods for hitting, defending and pitching

    This is the only way out of this mess. A giant turd of a mess that he DID NOT create...We are lucky to have him leading this process.

    The rest of this is just whining..

    • LOL "just whining" after trashing the O's 3 previous GMs, ironic to the nth degree sir! Yup, yup, G Rod, Mullins, Mouncastle, Mancini, Means, Hays all drafted by DD with the lowest of low ceilings - bingo! I miss your plugs for Tampa...

      • So, are you saying that both Duquettes, Flanagan, MacPhail, and Thrift were all better evaluators and developers of talent than Elias? What you have on your side is that Elias' body of work is still in its beginning phase. His predecessors did not strongly distinguish themselves as Talent Evaluators or Developers. Dan did have 6 drafts. He hit with some very good players, especially Manny, Means and likely Mountcastle and Mullins.

        My main point is that Elias inherited a giant mess. You don't dig out from these situations overnight, and you don't do it without a full organizational reset.

        • BC - A giant mess indeed!!! Also, 1 draft was only 5 rounds!!! So, really only 2 plus drafts!!!
          And if it was up to DD, Mountcastle would still be at shortstop making 30 - 35 errors a season. It was ME who tried to find a suitable position for him to play!!!

          • And under Mike Elias's watch is when Mullins gave up switch hitting - another great move for player development!!!

          • I'm sure Elias personally suggested the Mullins give up hitting right handed.

            Mike Elias has simply been the losingest GM in Baseball since his arrival. There is no denying that fact.

          • No, the fact is the most losses by a GM in Orioles history in 1 season belongs to your boy DD. The fact is, in the last 3 of 4 years DD finished in the cellar!!! And the fact is, only DD could trade away 2 Cy Young award pitchers during his tenure. That has to be a record these days!!! And only you could think he did a great job here!!!

          • So you DO deny Elias is the losingest GM during his tenure?

            Fact .... Duquette is the only GM to get the Orioles to the ALCS this century! No wait ...this millenium!!! Bwahahaahaaahaaaa

          • You can stick DD up your stupid azz!!! And like I told you there's NO CRYING IN BASEBALL!!! FACT: Only a moron would believe DD responsible for them making the playoffs!!! FACT: It was BUCK SHOWALTER that got them there, just like he turned around the franchise the moment he stepped on the filed as the manager and way before DD arrived!!! DD was responsible for the worst record in ORIOLES HISTORY!!! It was DD who tore down the Orioles franchise in his efforts to become the Blue Jays president!!! Probably a backhanded and undermining of the Orioles to get the job with the Blue Jays as their rival as well!!! And only a moron would go along with this which shows me you KNOW NOTHING ABOUT BASEBALL!!!

    • Another really intelligent response Dario. Ignore the facts presented to you and curse and call names. Same old same old … silly boy.

      • You gave me conjecture!!! I gave you all the facts!!! You can't handle the truth!!! Just like the movie!!! And friends/acquaintances call me Dario, my 100 best friends and my family call me Dar, and you're neither!!! When you address me you call me Orioles Number 1 Fan!!! Thank you

        • Dario ... Do you have seaon tickets to the O's? If not .. how can you be their #1 fan?

          And I didn't give you conjecture. They were all facts.

          Duquette is the only GM to get the Orioles to the ALCS this century AND Elias is the losingest GM in the Major Leagues during his tenure. These are the facts.

          So go ahead curse and overuse punctuation marks some more. And don't forget your meds tonite. bwahahaahaahaha

          • Kenny - You Sargent Schultz look alike "no nothing" wannabe!!! Now that's something you could pull off - And what's a "seaon"???
            I have the MLB package to watch every Orioles game up here in Gods country - New York!!! The next best thing!!! Just like you maybe do in Texas.
            FACT: Duquette rode the coattails of Andy McPhail's rebuilding of the Orioles!!! FACT: Buck Showalter is the man that got them turned around the minute he became manager!!! Fact: DD was GM in name only and the Orioles won despite him being in charge!!! FACT: Just like the 53rd player on a NFL roster, DD's spot only came into play when a mistake was made!!! FACT: Like trading away Cy Young winner Jake Arrieta for a 2 month rental 5th starter!!! FACT: And the dismantling the Orioles roster and getting absolutely nothing in return!!! ALL FACTS!!!

      • Yup ...he got me on my typo of "seaon" .. meant season ... I'm busted.

        BUT ......

        "no" nothing? (Dario ...the word is "know")
        "Sargent" Schultz? (Dar ....buddy ... it's Sergeant and capitalized when used in conjunction with a surname)

        Those weren't simple typos. Those are indicative of his education level. He really doesn't make as many mistakes as he used to (I take credit for that in a weird way) but he still writes like a Jr.High C- student.

        My guess is that he didn't make his high school debate team either.

        Also sounds like he's been to VERY few games if any. I wonder if the Angelos family would considered him a "no. 1" type fan? Hell, he's probably never even been to Pickle's. No 1 my "azz".

        • In my haste to comment, I didn't put a lot of thought on my "writing" down the actual words I meant to say due to a meeting with work! I hardly do any "writing" in my line of work and with my busy schedule with work and my own private business I started, I hardly have the time, so I'm out of practice. I'll let you and your pal as English teachers making a teacher's pay do that!!! I'll just stick to my nice 6 figure salary here in NY and when I need someone to "write" or better yet just proofread anything significant, I'll just hire someone with your minimum wage salary background to do so. And it's true what the song says, if you can make it here (in NY) you can make it anywhere!!! And it's also true what they say, he who laughs best.. Well, I'll let you figure out the rest I've got another meeting of importantance to attend!!! Now I'm lmao!!!

          • Ignorance is bliss. Another classic response from Dario when he has egg on his face.

            DAR... boobie ..... it's .... "He who laughs last ..." God I hate when they butcher cliche's.
            And "the song" isn't referring to upstate New York for crying out loud! (one exclamation mark will suffice)

            And finally, considering your recent bethroval, I'm guessing your new business may have something to do with mail order brides?

            Now shaddup on go to your meeting "importantance", and stop making a fool of yourself?

      • I "KNOW" the cliche moron!!! Looks like you went from "no" to "know"!!! Just like the commercial of the guy you probably really like like!!! Ha, ha, ha!!! And thanks, was just looking for the segway because I'm sure laughing best!!! And in ol New York I'm living pretty darn awesome!!! Now as DLR would say to any teacher - "I don't feel tardy. class dismiss" No stealing done here!!! Lmao again and again!!!

    • I’m out on my 40 acres, sitting on my porch, drinking coffee, retired & loving life, Dario…LMAOM….go O’s…

      • LOL .... I'm retired, live in Texas but don't have a back 40.

        I'm basically sitting on my couch in my underwear, and scratching whatever itches at the moment.

      • Palsy - Living in the woods and sitting on a log because of your teacher salary doesn't qualify!!! Well, maybe for you it does!!! Lmao again and again
        Kenny - And I don't care about your daily routine either!!! Lmao again and again

        • BRR & #1fan: Your back and forth insults have passed the boring & irrelevant stages for most of us. Please consider using your email instead of this baseball site for exchanging your personal putdowns.

  • Thank you for that correction Rich.

    The Machado selection is interesting in that it is said that as good of a prospect #13 was, the Orioles were hoping to get Jamison Taillon...in golf, I believe that's called a "good miss".

    • That Buzz1979, is a whole other discussion for another day.....

      Huge disappointment in my opinion. Somewhere along the line, he lacked/lacks a strong male influence in his life.

  • Rich, not a specific question, but two subjects I hope you cover this week. First, Sig to the Mets or other front office rumors you're aware of. Second, if (maybe when) Rutschman experiences a rookie slump or hits the wall, what strategy does the team have? I'm not suggesting that he'll be a bust or even a disappointment, but everybody hits bad spots, and there has to be a reaction. Stick it out? Send him down for seasoning? A few days off? Perhaps the choice of another catcher for the roster will tell us something.

  • Do I get an explanation as to why my post was deleted? I did not break any site rules to the best of my knowledge, simply a post explaining things about waivers and the 60day IL.

  • I gave you all the facts!!! You can't handle the truth!!! Just like the movie!!! And friends/acquaintances call me Dario, my 100 best friends and my family call me Dar, and you're neither!!! When you address me you call me Orioles Number 1 Fan!!! Thank you

  • I have been slowly losing faith in Elias and these two moves are just more nails in the coffin for my faith in him why keep krehbiel and Kriske not to mention another 3 or 4 guys on the 40 man over Harvey and Ellis

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Published by
Rich Dubroff
November 6, 2021

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