Photo credit: Icon Sportswire
In January 2020, I asked our readers to help me compile an all-time Orioles team. Here’s the second part, the 16 position players.
I was overwhelmed by the knowledge of our readers, especially those who named players from the ’50s, ’60’ and ’70s, before I arrived in Baltimore.
Many of the suggestions forced me to consider players I hadn’t thought about and created harder choices.
Again, thanks for your input. I couldn’t have done it without you.
Catchers: Rick Dempsey, Matt Wieters
The Orioles have had some very good catchers, but no great ones. Dempsey stands out because he played 12 seasons for the Orioles, won the World Series MVP in 1983, and caught the most games in team history.
Dempsey never made an All-Star team, and that’s a shame. He wasn’t a standout offensively, hitting .238 with the Orioles with a .674 OPS.
It was on defense that he stood out, although he never won a Gold Glove. In his career, he threw out 40 percent of runners attempting to steal and, in 1977, threw out 58 percent in 91 games.
Matt Wieters got lots of support from our readers, and I’m glad he did. For much of his eight-season Orioles career, he was unfairly criticized for not becoming a superstar. Wieters was the fifth overall pick in the 2007 draft and was a four-time All-Star and two-time Gold Glove winner.
I’ll remember him for coaxing a starting pitching staff that included Jason Hammel, Wei-Yin Chen, Miguel Gonzalez and a young Chris Tillman to within a game of the 2012 American League Championship Series.
Also considered: Chris Hoiles, Gus Triandos, Andy Etchebarren
I wavered between Hoiles and Wieters but decided to go with defense over offense. Hoiles was the superior offensive catcher. This was perhaps my closest call.
An argument also could be made for Triandos, who played eight seasons with the Orioles, from 1955-1962, long before my time. He was strong at stopping the running game, throwing out 47 percent of runners attempting to steal in his career. Triandos was a three-time All-Star.
Several fans told me not to forget Etchebarren, who died in October. Etchebarren was with the Orioles for 12 seasons, but was the primary catcher in only two, 1966 and 1967, when he was named to the All-Star team.
First base: Eddie Murray, Boog Powell
This was an easy choice. Murray was a seven-time All-Star with the Orioles, won the American League Rookie of the Year in 1977 and won three Gold Gloves. He finished second in the MVP race in 1982 and 1983.
Murray had 343 home runs, second in club history, and had a 51.9 WAR in 13 Oriole seasons, also second in club history.
He played with four other teams, but he’s always identified as an Oriole.
Powell was a strong hitter, but analytically he’s been downgraded as a first baseman. He was a four-time All-Star and was the AL MVP in 1970 when he hit 35 home runs, and had 114 RBIs and a .962 OPS.
Also considered: Rafael Palmeiro, Chris Davis, Jim Gentile
Palmeiro, who played precisely 1,000 games with the Orioles in seven seasons, is a polarizing figure among Oriole fans. His stats were excellent, but he will always be viewed skeptically because of his performance-enhancing drug suspension in 2005.
In any case, Powell’s longevity wins out.
I hope that 10 years from now Davis’ career will be remembered not only for his recent horrible offense but for the thrills he provided with his home runs in 2013 and 2015 and the heroic pitching performance in Fenway Park in May 2012.
Gentile was long the club’s single-season leader with 46 home runs and 141 RBIs in 1961, but he played only four seasons with the Orioles.
Second base: Bobby Grich, Brian Roberts
When I began this project, I had no idea whom I would pick at second until I began to hear chatter that perhaps Grich would get Hall of Fame consideration.
Grich was on the Hall of Fame ballot once, in 1992, and got just 2.6 percent of the vote, but he deserves batter. He was a four-time Gold Glove winner and three-time All-Star in seven Oriole seasons before moving on to the California Angels. In his five complete seasons, 1972-1977, Grich’s WAR was between 6.0 and 7.3.
Roberts was a strong player on terrible Oriole teams. He led the American League in doubles twice and stolen bases once. Injuries in his final four Orioles seasons, 2010-2013, clouded impressions of him.
Also considered: Roberto Alomar, Davey Johnson, Jonathan Schoop
Alomar had three outstanding seasons with the Orioles, but that’s not enough here. Johnson was a good player, but Grich’s arrival forced him out of Baltimore. Schoop had a nice run, but a relatively short one.
Shortstop: Cal Ripken Jr., Mark Belanger
Ripken is the obvious one, but Belanger is nearly as obvious.
Ripken not only played in 2,632 consecutive games, a record that will never be broken, but he was a 19-time All-Star, something you also might not see again. He won two MVPs and was the 1982 Rookie of the Year. Ripken was also an eight-time Silver Slugger. In 1990, he played 161 games at shortstop and committed just three errors.
Belanger had the fourth-highest WAR of any Oriole, trailing only Ripken, Murray and Brooks Robinson. That’s amazing, but as you might suspect, nearly all of his WAR came from his sterling defense. Belanger hit just .227 as an Oriole with a subpar .580 OPS. He was an eight-time Gold Glove recipient and made the All-Star team in 1976 when he hit a career-high .270.
Also considered: Luis Aparicio, J.J. Hardy, Miguel Tejada, Mike Bordick
Aparicio is a Hall of Famer, but that’s primarily because of his 10 excellent seasons with the Chicago White Sox. He played only five with the Orioles, winning the Gold Glove twice.
Hardy had a strong seven-season career with the Orioles, and Tejada set the team single-season RBI record with 150 in 2004, but he played just five seasons with the Orioles. In 2001, Bordick made just one error in 117 games.
Third Base: Brooks Robinson, Manny Machado
Robinson is a given. The Hall of Famer won an unbelievable 16 Gold Gloves and was an 18-time All-Star. Robinson won the 1964 MVP and will be forever remembered for his stellar play at third base in the 1970 World Series against the Cincinnati Reds.
Had Machado stayed with the Orioles, it would have been interesting to see if he could have come close to Robinson in fans’ minds. He was a joy to watch, and I’ll always remember his play at third base at Yankee Stadium, where he fielded a ground ball near the stands and made an on-target throw to first.
Also considered: Melvin Mora
Had there been a utility player, Mora could have been the guy. He played every position but pitcher and catcher, but was primarily a third baseman. In 2004, Mora hit .340, highest in club history.
Outfield: Frank Robinson, Paul Blair, Adam Jones, Brady Anderson, Nick Markakis, Ken Singleton
Cincinnati traded Robinson to Baltimore after the 1965 season, referring to him a “not young” 30, and he was the key to the Orioles’ first world championship and a run as the best team in baseball. Even though he played just six seasons with the Orioles, and later became the game’s first African American manager with Cleveland, he’s remembered as an Oriole.
In 1966, Robinson won the Triple Crown, MVP and World Series MVP.
Blair was the best centerfielder in franchise history, winning eight Gold Gloves.
Although Jones wasn’t a leftfielder, and wasn’t a better centerfielder than Blair, he’s one of the three best outfielders in team history. The most important player on the team during its 2012-2016 run, Jones had the fourth-most hits in team history and fifth-most home runs and RBIs. He won four Gold Gloves in center and was a five-time All-Star.
Anderson was also among the club leaders in many offensive categories. He had the fifth-most hits and doubles, is fourth in runs scored and is the team leader with 307 stolen bases. He hit 50 home runs in 1996, a team record surpassed by Chris Davis in 2013.
Markakis was an underappreciated player in his nine seasons. He won two Gold Gloves and was a steady influence on the field and in the clubhouse while hitting .290.
We’ll make Singleton the designated hitter. In 10 seasons, Singleton hit .284 and was the regular DH in 1982, 1983 and 1984.
Also considered: Al Bumbry, Harold Baines, B.J. Surhoff
Leaving Bumbry off was an agonizing call. Bumbry hit .282 with 252 stolen bases in 13 seasons. If rosters ever expand to 27 players, he makes it.
In three iterations lasting seven seasons, Baines hit .301 with the Orioles, but he went into the Hall of Fame with the White Sox, for whom he played 14 seasons.
Surhoff played eight seasons with the Orioles and hit .291. He played until he was 41.
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I can't really argue against any of your choices, but I would add Hoyt Wilhelm and Doug DeCinces to the others considered.
And I should add, great job in your selections, and I enjoy reading your thoughts each weekday. Hope you're having a great holiday season and that the coming year is your best yet.
Thank you. While 2021 wasn’t a great year for many people and their families, it was a good year for the site despite the Orioles’ struggles.
Can't believe DeCinces didn't get a mention!
Rich - thankless and impossible job - so, thanks! A couple questioned Adam Jones inclusion. To them I say - What? Adam (along with Markakis) were two players who embraced the Orioles' past, played the 'Oriole Way', and loved this city. AJ was everywhere in and around Baltimore and was the face of the franchise for a decade. He ran hard to 1st on routine ground balls on Tuesdays in August when we were out of the race. Oh, and he put up really good numbers! He is nearer the top of the OF list than the bottom. And Al Bumbry, my favorite player - makes sense that he just missed! Good job. Go O's!
Thank you, OsNattyBohs!
These selections line up with WAR except Hoiles 23.5 over Wieters 18.2 and Mora over Markakis (29.1 vs 26.0) if you are willing to include Mora as an OF/Utility player. Lists of managers, coaches, broadcasters, beat writers next?
On May 26, 2020 I had the best managers and coaches in team history. I also had the all underrated team that month. More to come.
As you know, Joe, WAR is important but not my sole measure.
I know WAR is not your sole measure you rebel! I try very hard to appreciate non-WAR-based points of view but it is difficult lol.
Thanks for the leads on the May 2020 posts, I will go check them out.
Glad to hear BB had a great year, you guys are the best IMO - Happy New Year wishes to the BB staff and dedicated commenters too!
No arguments from me, either. Superb choices, but why did I think Don Baylor merited some consideration as well ? Maybe my fading memory.
Baylor’s lifetime stats were good, but he only played 511 games with the Orioles, Jim. The others played far more and were more productive.
Can’t help but wonder how the O’s would have faired had Baylor not been traded and played for them through the 70s. Maybe they win it in ‘79. And maybe more.
Good choices. I too would have considered Doug Decinces. Even over Melvin Mora.
Mora would beat out DeCinces because of versatility.
True, but Mora didn’t have to replace Brooks
Two thoughts. Not enough folks remember Triandos. Slugger on weak hitting teams and great on defense. Second to Berra in All-Star voting for several years when players voted. (Saw him hit an inside the park home run at the first game I ever attended, in 1957, miraculous in that he was one of the slowest runners ever). Cavernous stadium helped. Second, look at how many excellent up the middle infielders are on your list. Confirms the obvious. Great list, great post.
Thank you for this, PT.
I second your motion on Triandos. Besides his outstanding defense (i was surprised looking up some of his stats), he was a bona fide slugger in a pitcher's park during an era when home runs were not so prolific. He was also a bona fide --that is, not token-- All Star on the first rebuilding of the Baltimore Orioles, someone for fans to take pride in. Not a Hall-of-Famer, but, for his time, a franchise player. I respect Dempsey's long and excellent service on and off the field, but I'd take Triandos over Hoiles or Wieters. If the latter had been as valuable in his time as Triandos was in his, he would not have the doubters he has today.
It’s hard to argue with this list. Leaving off Bumbry hurts glad to see Belanger get the recognition and what a rich heritage of quality SS. Hopefully we’ll see a resurgence there soon. it’s interesting that several of the players, like Dempsey and Belanger are noted for their defensive capabilities. I miss defense.
“Had Machado stayed with the Orioles, it would have been interesting to see if he could have come close to Robinson in fans’ minds.” I’m confident I have the answers to that thought Rich. No. Never. Not ever. Not in a lifetime. No way. No slight against Cal intended but Brooks was, is and forever will be the greatest person to have ever worn an Orioles uniform. Brooks is the baseball equivalent of Johnny U. I’m sure I’m biased but in my opinion no city ever boasted the likes of Brooks and Johnny U playing their careers at the same time. It’s no coincidence that Brooks career really took off in 1958, same year as the “greatest game ever played” in the NFL. Baltimore was SO blessed to have them both at the same time. Some athletes will never be surpassed and Brooks is one of them, as was Johnny U.
Terry Crowley has a higher career OBP than Machado!
As you might imagine, I agree 100%
Well said and spot on digruber1!
Again, Bob Nieman the most overlooked player in Orioles history.
Nieman was before my time, and you’re the only reader who has ever brought him up. His four seasons with the team were impressive, but I can’t see him unseating any of those who I mentioned. I appreciate you again bringing him to my attention.
I never heard of Bob Nieman. What position, what years, any stats?
Left fielder 1956-59, 82 homers 336 RBIs, .301 average and .869 OPS.
Far too many inclusions from this century. Wieters, Davis? More like the all-disappointment team. If anything, players of earlier eras should get favored status since they played at a time when many types of injuries were career ending.
Agree, can't see how Davis is close to being on any type of "All-Time" Orioles team ... yes, Davis had a couple of tremendous seasons, but his career is really more notable for the complete collapse in which he posted some of the worst offensive seasons in MLB history ... I know he played a combo of 1st Base and DH, but I would gladly take "The Big Bopper" Lee May over Davis at 1st Base on my team.
Forgot about Lee May. Here's a stat of interest. As a 41 year old Harold Baines had a .349 OBP with the Orioles. This season's team had 1 player who exceeded that number. No way I take Adam Jones over Harold Baines. His inclusion at Cooperstown speaks for itself.
Phhhhffffffftttttt! to you jimcarter! Phhhhfffffffttttttt!
I think Wieters isn’t thought as highly because of the feeling he didn’t live up to expectations. Help poor Adley if he only puts up Wieters numbers. Adam Jones was a great fielder as well as productive hitter so I’d take him over Baines. Baines isn’t in HOF because of his time in Baltimore. Beside which he can’t be among outfielders since he never played that here.
Nice job Rich, but Gus Triandos still best catcher in O's history -- hands down. Check his caught stealing numbers.
I did, very impressive.
I'll take Triandos at the plate, too. The only one with a 30-homer season (record-tying at the time). And recognized as a threat with 39 intentional walks as an O. Wieters had 22, Hoiles had 17, and Dempsey had 8.
Six of those walks came when he was batting eighth which meant they were walking him to get to the pitcher.
Overall, intentional walks have been falling rapidly over the years, so I don’t think it’s a valid comparison.
If intentional walks have been "falling rapidly," you would think they'd be below zero after 60 years. You may know the stats on individual eighth-place hitters and how often they were walked ahead of a pitcher over the same period of time as Triandos. You also assume a pinch-hitter was not a possibility. At any rate, even subtracting those six, Triandos had 50% more than the runner-up. Moreover, putting the catchers in chronological order, the sequence is 39 (or 33), 8, 17, and 22. This does not show a rapid fall over time. The numbers do indicate, however, the order in which I'd put the players in terms of offensive threat: Triandos, Wieters, Hoiles, and Dempsey. I don't claim to prove something from one stat, but I do think that, while some weak hitters may be given passes in the hope of facing an even weaker hitter, it is more likely that a player who accumulates intentional walks in multiple places in the lineup is probably a feared hitter. I think in this case, the data support the perception.
Will, I am too young to have seen Triandos as an Oriole, but he did catch for the Tigers in the first game I saw in 1963.
The catching decision was a hard one, and I had to rely on stats and people I talked to who are older than I am who saw Triandos play.
I’m impressed by the ferocity of his support, but judging by WAR, Triandos trails Dempsey, Hoiles and Wieters, but it’s close.
Great photo - '66 or '70 World Series?
Not sure.
I’m sure that’s a 1966 photo.
Yes, 66 ... Brooks still had some hair on top, and Frank had the flat top - both were gone by 70.
And let's bring back the flannels ...
Rich, how did Jerry Adair's numbers compare with the 2nd baseman listed. Great list!!
When I originally did the team, I asked for suggestions, and several readers suggested Adair. His defensive numbers were fine, but weak offensively.
Absolutely a great list you put together here Rich, I really shouldn't have ANY problem at all with any of your choices, you and I both know that I can't let you off that easy.
I too am vexed that the Bee is not on this team. It just a'int right. Not the Oriole Way at all, so here is what I propose:
Let's go lite at the one position that there is absolutely no question of as to who is king....Third Base, and carry Al Bumbry on our squad.
Reasons are a few.
1. His fraternization with the other teams superstars on third base in middle of a game was sickening. Why he limited this fraternization to a "star" player and not the average player is a character tell.
2. While he was unquestionably spectacular and "a joy to watch" to watch at 3rd on occassion ... and and I too "remember his play at third base at Yankee Stadium" ... what I can't see to forget is his penchant to play balls nonchalatntly into a many a fielding or throwing error, on far too many of those other occassions.
3. Manny Machado is THE WORST BASERUNNER I'VE EVER SEEN RUN. And I'm not talking about god given speed. I'm talking about never, ever running out groud balls, and being THE MOST BONEHEADED run/don't run player ever. EVER. I've never seen a worse base runner. Ever.
4. And lastly, Manny Machado never came close to being the player he should have been. IMO...I've never seen a player disgregard his craft and god given abiltity. When he first came up he was our Mike Trout. He was our Bryce Harper. Really? He never came close.
5: It boils down to this: Manny Machado does not represent the Oriole Way, in my heart at least. Far, far from it.
So Rich ... Give me Brooks and Brooks only at third and I'll give you Bumbry. Can't do that? How's about Decinces?
Ken, I wrote this two years ago, and see no reason to change what I wrote then.
Machado was an electrifying player to cover and the best third baseman the team ever had—except for Brooks.
Gotcha Rich. You enjoyed watching Manny in all his excellence, despite the colors he wore.
Spot on B. And besides that, 13 was a punk.
It’s really impressive to look back at how many truly excellent shortstops have played here. As I recall, Belanger often batted second because of his great bat control. He could bunt, hit and run, or take a walk. Whatever it took to advance the leadoff runner.
I’ve often wanted the modern teams to follow that model. Maybe put somebody like second.
… somebody like Urias. But then again, maybe I’m just being nostalgic.
I'm thinking Mullins would be perfect. He may not it .300 or near it every year.
Loved Dick Hall. Amazing athlete. Started his career as an outfielder, I believe. Faced over 5000 batters in his career and had ZERO balks and hit ONE batter. That’s a good inning for some of our present pitchers.
I must be missing something as far as Brian Roberts is concerned. Davey Johnson started at 2B in 4 World Series. He finished 3rd in ROY voting, played in 3 All Star games and won 2 Gold Gloves. He was a hard nosed SOB and a winner.
Nellie, Davey Johnson was a fine player and won three Gold Gloves.
Brian Roberts was fourth in franchise history in doubles, second in stolen bases, and was the best player on many bad teams.
Just because Johnson, who I much admired as a manager played in four World Series, and hit .192 in them, doesn’t make him better.
Yes, “he was a hard nosed SOB and a winner,” but not every player from those 60s and 70s Orioles was automatically better than latter day players who weren’t surrounded by superior players as Johnson
was.
I’d rather bat .192 in 4 WS than not play in any. I’d have picked 15 over 1 hands down.
Johnson hit 43 HR for the Braves in 1972, Roberts hit 96 for his career. And Johnson never pulled a Brinks job like Roberts did, 120 games over 4 years, for 40!!! illion!
hey rich, bobby grich is a no Brainer.
lou Whitaker. 363 Oba
bobby grich .371
L.W. .789 ops
B.G. .794
L.W 3gg B.G 4gg
L.W. 16.3 def war
B.G. 16.8
L.W. per 162 gms WAR 5.1
B.G. 5.7.
this has to so with your HOF article
They are the two most deserving players who are not in the Hall of Fame. Whitaker had 1,084 RBIs to Grich’s 864. Whitaker had 2,369 hits to Grich’s 1,833.
Other than Machado and Schoop, is there anyone less than 35 years old on Rich's list or among those the commenters suggested as additions? The long list of stars of yesteryear says something about how good the O's were "back in the day." And it says something about why some of us old-timers are so disillusioned about recent and present teams (even taking free agency into account).
Wishing everyone a healthy, productive 2022.
Zack Britton is 34.
Again, this was something I wrote two years ago and nothing has happened to
change my opinion.
Other than Brian Roberts, Mora and Markakis, there isn’t anyone who played between the end of Ripken in 2001 and 2008, so dry periods aren’t uncommon.
There are some players on this team that five or 10 years from now could conceivably qualify for a list, but they just haven’t played long enough.
Good call on Dick Hall! I was actually at a game Dick Hall started in August 1963. He pitched well but lost 1-0 to the Twins on the strength of a Jimmie Hall home run. And who can forget the first game of the ALCS in 1970 when Cuellar was getting hit hard by the Twins but had hit a grand slam. At some point Dick Hall came in and the Twins got NADA off of him. He was a very smart man. He used to design quizzes on general knowledge for the bullpen. He'd turn up at NASL games following the Baltimore Bays. And learned Spanish when he pitched in the winter leagues. His windup was calculated so that the ball came right out of his uniform and with some help from the white shirts in the centerfield bleachers batters could not pick it up. And as your article mentioned, he didn't walk batters.
He was one of a kind.
I'm surprised Don Buford isn't getting some notice. He was a leadoff switch hitter who compiled excellent statistics from 1968-1971. I was there when he took Tom Seaver deep in his first AB in the 1969 World Series. One of Earl Weaver's best decisions when he got hired midway through the 1968 season was to start playing Buford every day and leading off.
Buford only played five seasons in Baltimore. He was a good player, but the others were better.
My only disagreement is leaving Bumbry off. He definitely replaces Brady Anderson in my opinion. Anderson struggled mightily at the plate in his first few seasons, to the point where he was almost given too many chances. His 50 HR season is such an anomaly that it has to be questioned just like Palmeiro’s stat accumulation. Bumbry was RoY and played at a consistently high level of a run of excellent Orioles teams in the 70s and early 80s. Tough to keep him out of the starting 3, much less off the team entirely.